Lemon or Honest? Swapping the DME unit
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Lemon or Honest? Swapping the DME unit
First of all a big thank you to all the contributions to this forum. One of my first posts: I'm looking to buy a 997.1 TT which seems poised to have its DME swapped.
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
Last edited by Luxembourger; Jul 23, 2015 at 02:47 PM.
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From: Germany
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First of all a big thank you to all the contributions to this forum. One of my first posts: I'm looking to buy a 997.1 TT which seems poised to have its DME swapped.
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 229
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First of all a big thank you to all the contributions to this forum. One of my first posts: I'm looking to buy a 997.1 TT which seems poised to have its DME swapped.
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
THE HUNT: I have been looking at 997s for over 6 months and finally found one which meets my specs: manual with less than 70k (40k in miles) on the odo, full service history, interiour as good as new, underside as good as a 10k car, clean trunk area with original paint, no accident history, original body panels, no overrevs claimed in range 3-6, no suspicious smoke or noises, smoothest clutch/gearchange of all those tested.
OWNERSHIP: the car had 4 owners in nearly a decade: the first owner held it for 3 years in Italy, second owner for another 3 years in Italy. The third owner was a sole trader, who imported it from Italy to Germany in 2012 (on the wake of the Italian regulator's clamp down on sportscar owners) and sold it in 6 months, presumably for financial gain on back of the regulatory impact on market prices. The fourth owner held it for another 3 years in Germany. While I wasn't crazy about the 4 owners, the story was consistent, and the car was serviced regularly at official Porsche centres in Italy and Germany.
CAR & SELLER: I have seen a few 911 TTs recently and this one looks nearly impeccable, also under the carpets, inside the trunk and underneath. The Seller is a privately owned outfit, very well reputed in Germany. He had over 50 positive comments on a 3rd party site (mobile.de) and not from friends: he sent me the feedback link before the test drive, which is then controlled by the 3rd party so I could feed anything I like. The Seller seems to be genuine, kept me properly informed.
THE POTENTIAL ISSUE: A few days before the scheduled test drive, the engine stopped revving above 3500 rpm and the aircon also stopped working at the same time. The Seller claimed that OPC had already told him that this was caused by a lack of voltage at the airbox regulator, in which case the engine is automatically going into safety mode. He had had a date booked with OPC already, but we went ahead with the test drive nevertheless. Other than this, I was very satisfied with the test drive, the car really feels as one, similar to the condition of a 2-3yr old car with less than 20k on the odo. The Seller took it to OPC afterwards, who advised that the car keeps throwing out error codes, the issue is with the control unit, und das Auto needs a DME swap. This means loosing all over-rev and #hours data of course.
THE DILEMMA: following the PPI and in spite of the findings, I still believe that this is an honest and genuine car with some bad timing. I also prefer to buy a car with a known history, rather than a black box. My thoughts are rather occupied by a potential hit on the resale value: who would buy a 5 owner 997 TT (with a DME swapped after 9 years) even if it is in an impeccable condition, with a well documented Porsche centre history?
Any thoughts, similar experience?
The swapped DME is a reasonable fix for a reasonable issue on a car thats far from brand new. it is not some sort of hack or shortcut. It is extremely unlikely to cause you future problems if it fixes all the issues when installed.
My car is a driver. 53k miles and counting. I take it snowboarding, I drive it to the beach and it gets sand in it, I take it on roadtrips. If you don't have VERY low milage, you can't really ever get back into the perfect car club, no matter the actual condition of your car, and you should stop worrying about it imho. I bought it to put a smile on my face, not to stress myself out over how much value I'm going to be able to preserve for the next owner.
I agree that if you are very very worried, a CPO car is a great place to start. You are rolling the dice on any used turbo no matter how nice it seems or how thoroughly you inspect and research. A car with no overrevs could blow an engine, a car with a clean history could have a ton of paintwork... there is no such thing as a sure thing in an ~8 year old used near-exotic no warranty sportscar.
Last edited by TimeTomorrow; Jul 24, 2015 at 07:37 AM.
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Silver Silber 997 Turbo in Munchen Münich
Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. True enough, a used car is a used car.. not far from my line of thought! Yet I'm trying to get the best one I can afford, so as to avoid a money pit. Once I have a car I know I will stop worrying about it, but I also do not want to enter into a potentially troublesome purchase, without giving it some rational thought. My strategy is to try to keep a cool head during purchase.. the pleasure of ownership will certainly follow!
There are also some new developments today: the Seller now wants to increase the price(!) let me give a bit of a background so you can follow the story:
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. Yet I'm used to buying one owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
There are also some new developments today: the Seller now wants to increase the price(!) let me give a bit of a background so you can follow the story:
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. Yet I'm used to buying one owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
Last edited by Luxembourger; Jul 24, 2015 at 01:59 PM.
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I would agree with you, that i do not like the way this seller is acting. The obvious question I would ask is "what improvements/investments has he made to the car"?
If these investments do not add value for you, then he has merely brought the car up the the originally agreed on condition, than I would stick pretty close to the original price, or look elsewhere unless this car is a special combo you can't find again for some reason.
If these investments do not add value for you, then he has merely brought the car up the the originally agreed on condition, than I would stick pretty close to the original price, or look elsewhere unless this car is a special combo you can't find again for some reason.
Last edited by TimeTomorrow; Jul 24, 2015 at 02:48 PM.
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Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. not far from my line of thought! There's some news, as the Seller now wants to increase the price(!) Let me give a bit of a background so you can follow the story:
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars near the bottom of this price-range, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. Yet I'm used to buying one owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
THE TEST DRIVE. When I arrived for the test-drive (took a flight from Luxembourg to München) I was caught by surprise that the car is showing failures, and is not in a mint condition as advertised. The Seller said that the failure only appeared 3 days beforehand, and he did not want to reschedule for a 2nd time to avoid additional costs (he had asked me to reschedule once before, as he decided to extended his sailing holiday, so couldn't keep the original date). Anyhow I wanted to keep a good relationship, as he was known to be a reputed seller, and I was stuck in Münich for the day anyhow, so we had the test drive. I liked the car but I told him it wasn't in the mint condition advertised. We agreed that the Seller would put the car back into the advertised condition. He said the work would be done at Porsche Münich /München/ at his cost, which I was pleased to hear. When I asked him, he said expected the cost could be as little as 500 (air sensor swap) or as high as 3-5000 euros (main cable swap) but it's his cost anyhow.
THE PRICE. The advertised price for the car in mint condition was 56,900 euro, which is the mid-high end of the market (good condition sub 100k 997.1s are advertised between 49-59k in Europe). We agreed to a price of 55,350 euros and negotiated the contract. With a pen in hand and all details agreed, he claimed he prefers to hold off with signing, to have a chance to double-check the over-revs when he gets the car back from Porsche München, to be sure it is as advertised ie no over-revs range 3-6. Reluctantly I agreed, in the hopes of keeping it a civilised discussion. He asked for a deposit of 1000 euros anyhow, which I transferred into his account. Everything we agreed to in the draft contract was summarised in an email I sent him after the test drive, so there's a good track record.
THE INCREASE. The car is now ready to be picked up and I asked him last weekend to meet on Saturday, to confirm the condition and sign the contract (I will be travelling via Münich tomorrow on my way to hols). Now he's telling me that he has "invested" 4600 euros into the car, and that he cannot sell it at the old price!
ABOUT ME: I'm 38 and pretty much used to buying used performance cars near the bottom of this price-range, although admittedly I haven't had a Porsche before. Yet I'm used to buying one owner 1-3 year old BMWs and never had an experience like this. My patience is wearing thin, as I'm getting the feeling that the Seller is taking me for a ride. I've been telling myself it's the Porsche world of a sellers market, but I'm not so sure anymore..
Is this considered "normal" ?
Have fun with yor deal...
Last edited by yah996; Jul 24, 2015 at 02:03 PM.
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I live close to munich, a understand the market and the price for a 4 users car is a little bit to high if the color is not black/black. Beware, take "a smell" if the car is hot. If you smell a sweet in the front, coolers are gone. Sweet smells in the back, close to 5k for engine repair. Take a look also to the clutch resorvoir. If you can see some fluid, problems will start. Again, PZ Munich will not give you any overev report. PZ munich can CPO the car, 111 Punkte check, if is not older than 9 years and mileage is correct, Betriebsstunden counter will be read out! and the car is in perfect condition. I doubt the PZ will give you aCPO what you already worte. CPO Its about 1650 Euro for one year. Sorry for my bad english, i am sitting on my ipad.
Have fun with yor deal...
Have fun with yor deal...
Lucky you.. I was very positively surprised at what a beautiful place Munich is.
Sailing on lakes, close to the Alps, good economy. Brilliant!
There was no CPO offered (OPC = PZ in your world, as in Offiziel Porsche Centrum
) as it's a 9 year and a bit old car. Have you seen it by any chance? It was a silver 997 removed just recently from mobile.de and autoscout24.de.Good tips re "smell test". Is it the leaking coolant which smells sweet? I will make sure to check the clutch reservoir- I guess I'll need a lift for that? The over-rev read out would be done by the Seller's mechanic with Durametric, so not PZ Munich.
I have the 111 Punkte check in hand, done by Porsche Dortmund in 03/2015. It's surprisingly generic and high level: it's filled out by hand (albeit signed) there is a typo in the VIN, and the schematic drawing on the form shows a Cayenne. Nothing really that I wouldn't check anyhow: at least a dozen of the 111 ticks are for switches only. Another dozen for lamps and indicators. Another dozen for body, cut in various ways, etc. Basic stuff that you would check anyhow when buying. At least it shows no major issues in March, so the Seller is telling a consistent story!
Last edited by Luxembourger; Jul 24, 2015 at 02:29 PM.
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Lucky you.. I was very positively surprised at what a beautiful place Munich is.
Sailing on lakes, close to the Alps, good economy. Brilliant!
There was no CPO offered (OPC = PZ in your world, as in Offiziel Porsche Centrum) as it's a 9 year and a bit old car. Have you seen it by any chance? It was a silver 997 removed just recently from mobile.de and autoscout24.de.
Good tips re "smell test". Is it the leaking coolant which smells sweet? I will make sure to check the clutch reservoir- I guess I'll need a lift for that? The over-rev read out would be done by the Seller's mechanic with Durametric, so not PZ Munich.
I have the 111 Punkte check in hand, done by Porsche Dortmund in 03/2015. It's surprisingly generic and high level: it's filled out by hand (albeit signed) there is a typo in the VIN, and the schematic drawing on the form shows a Cayenne. Nothing really that I wouldn't check anyhow: at least a dozen of the 111 ticks are for switches only. Another dozen for lamps and indicators. Basic stuff that you would check anyhow when buying. The clutch and the break pads are "circled" not ticked, proof of a high level check. At least it shows no issues in March, so the Seller is telling a consistent story!
Sailing on lakes, close to the Alps, good economy. Brilliant!
There was no CPO offered (OPC = PZ in your world, as in Offiziel Porsche Centrum
) as it's a 9 year and a bit old car. Have you seen it by any chance? It was a silver 997 removed just recently from mobile.de and autoscout24.de.Good tips re "smell test". Is it the leaking coolant which smells sweet? I will make sure to check the clutch reservoir- I guess I'll need a lift for that? The over-rev read out would be done by the Seller's mechanic with Durametric, so not PZ Munich.
I have the 111 Punkte check in hand, done by Porsche Dortmund in 03/2015. It's surprisingly generic and high level: it's filled out by hand (albeit signed) there is a typo in the VIN, and the schematic drawing on the form shows a Cayenne. Nothing really that I wouldn't check anyhow: at least a dozen of the 111 ticks are for switches only. Another dozen for lamps and indicators. Basic stuff that you would check anyhow when buying. The clutch and the break pads are "circled" not ticked, proof of a high level check. At least it shows no issues in March, so the Seller is telling a consistent story!
111 Point check is very hard to get. If yes, the car has at least no issues millage compare to counter for running hours and no problems on over-revs. So Porsche will read out the "Betriebsstunden" and compare it against KM on the Speedometer. Some important Data are stored on the 997.1TT Models in rear wing electronic and also in the airbag. So again, it is hard to fake if you doubt on any mileage issues.
CPO (US like) = Porsche approved = 111 Punkte Check.
What you have, looks to me, it is what Porsche says, a "Langzeitsbericht". This document is related to the warranty for paint on the body. Sorry this is not a 111 Check, if your VIN is not on the document.
Smell test is simple, if your nose is still ok
, you can smell the coolant leakage. This is a common problems to all 997 TT. The smell is strong, believe me. Check it if the car is hot. 1k for 1 cooler replacement in the front. The 997 TT has 3 coolers in the front. If you smell coolant in the engine bay, hui! Check some treads like, my Engine is out, what can I do more ??? If the car is 9 years old and more than 60k km on it, clutch will be gone and even worse the hydraulic cylinders are mostly gone too. Almost all 997.1TT have this problems 2-3k for the both Cylinders and 3k for a new clutch. (PZ Prices).
Check some nice treats here, GT2 Slave cylinder conversions.
There is a cup in the front of the car inside. If fluid is already over, problems will start.
If the car is on CPO all the problems except the clutch itself will be 100% covered by Porsche.
Coolant and clutch issues are the first expensive problems on 997TT.
MAFs and ignitions coils if the car is older like ours.
You have to wait for the wintertime, and take a look for a 2009 CPO.
60k is possible.
Last edited by yah996; Jul 24, 2015 at 03:07 PM.
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I think that because of the long time you've spent looking, you're trying to justify this car. This has way too many stories and issues. The seller is charging near top mark, for a car with many issues (even if corrected), then backing out on his agreement because he had to make the car actually match the description. If you ever tried to resell this car, you would receive offers at the very bottom of the range because you'd have to spend an hour telling the buyer about all this story. And would they believe you? No, they'd assume you're selling them your problem. Just like this person is trying to sell you his problem.
Get your money back and run away - there are other cars out there.
Get your money back and run away - there are other cars out there.
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My $0.02, you've been patient for 6 months, a little while longer shouldn't be a big deal, pass on this car and keep looking! Like we say, "the little things add up"...if it were one 'little thing' I wouldn't be afraid to buy the car but the various fixes required to bring it to 'as advertised' condition is already a major red flag...now the owner wants more money! If you can recover your EUR1,000 do so and keep looking...
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