Welcome to the board!

This is on 94 pump gas and I don't have graphs. I use my I Phone through my VBOX.

There might be people running faster times, but I am not competing against them unless they are door to door with me and going off of three honks. Unless I drive their car on the same road, conditions etc the it can be compared. 60-130, 1/4, dynos or any test can vary as they are many variables. I do this test to measure my delta differences in performance period. In the beginning of my post I had a link to how I do my test and why, pls take a read:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ight-pipe.html

If I wanted to just have crazy 60-130 times, I could let Todd at Proto give me a aggressive tune (i.e. I am running -19psi's and conservative timing), without longevity in mind, but that is not my goal..... I know some that have got better times, but are running 26psi's (on pump gas, stock turbos!!!), no lift from 3-4 and 3% decline etc etc......Pls take a read of my link that I attached above so I don't repeat my previous thread and you have a better understanding of my goals.

Concerning the intercoolers, if it does nothing to my times, 6Speed would be the first to know. I document all my modifications WITH THE DELTA differences (that is what matters to compare) to share with other members so we can all see the real world effects on our cars.

Thanks

Bobby Ali

ba

 

I ran a 6.7 on pump gas with a 1.9% drop, 21 psi max, with a no lift shift. I also put two car lengths on my brother's 132 mph trapping 2014 TA Viper in a 40-135 mph race while on pump gas which matches up perfectly with what a 6.7 sec car should run (roughly 134 or so).

Oh and for a pump gas, upgrade VTG car, those intercoolers will make a nice difference in performance over the awful 997.1 units. They flow significantly more as well as cool significantly better. Both of these factors are important on pump fuel. Looking forward to seeing the improvement once you get them on!

 

Your car surely moves out especially on stock twins .

When are you going to rewheel and clip your turbos?

I would love to see what you would do with a turbo rewheel upgrade, considering what you do with stock twins!!


Thanks for your support/comments with the 997.2 coolers. I truly hope to pick up some nice power... We will see...




Thxs

BobbyAli

 

Bobby, first off great results. Its the deltas that matter when it comes to judging performance mods. Records don't mean much but what works and what doesn't sure does especially when it comes to choosing where to spend money modifying hardware.

My 2c from all my testing with VTGs including OEMs, at 19psi you're on the conservative side leaving midrange torque on the table even on pump gas.

This community should really start to pick up on cylinder pressure points I've been bringing up a number of times by now and how it follows the torque curve very closely and not be as fixated on X or Y boost specifically. What this means is that X, Y or Z psi really means nothing on its own being that its just ONE part of the cylinder pressure equation. Once you factor in ignition timing, fuel targets, backpressure/EGTs then the picture starts to unfold and tell the tale.

If a given turbo is in its efficiency range at X or Y psi the turbo itself isn't being 'pushed', but, it might be due to too lean/rich AFR and/or ignition timing too retarded causing high EGTs putting stress on the turbine side of things.

There is a balance to how far up/down to go with ignition timing and boost. You want to ideally run the turbos in their efficiency range all the way through (to minimize heat soak provided no meth) and have ignition timing set for MBT without incurring knock/timing pull, and be able to do so across multiple gears. This may not provide the highest hp/tq numbers out there (i.e. dyno queen numbers) but it will provide for the best run-to-run consistency and healthy motor.

These are indeed stout motors and as we all know they can take a lot of beating on stock internals even on subpar tuning. We've seen some quite poor tuning so far out there with logs from customers coming in to be retuned via a Cobb AP. Devil is always in the details and there are many. It takes time day in day out to feel things out and there really is no one size fits all approach.

Heard you got your intercoolers

Dzenno@PTF

 

First off, thanks for the "hook" up on the intercoolers!! BTW your friends 997.2 MOVES OUT and I had a hard time reminding myself that it was on PUMP GAS!!


This was the first time I got a ride in a PDK Turbo, let alone one with drag radials, from a dig and with launch control!! I expected the launch to be hard, but wow.... what I didn't expect was the onslaught of power as he "paddled" through the upper gears ... he is making some nice power!


I do not doubt that there is still power to be had with my set up and some more boost/tuning. With the stock intercoolers and IAT I would rather of waited for upgraded intercoolers before addressing a more aggressive tune and or more boost.....I LIKE BOOST AND MORE BOOST BTW!! I understand what you are saying and the 911 world reminded me of where the Supra world or the DSM world was back in the LATE 90's early 20's coming to tuning, meth etc. The BIG difference is if you blew up you 7MGTE, 4g63, you can pick one up WITH turbo for $1200 CDN at a Jap place or if you blew apart a R154 tranny I got them for $400 a pop from 400 wreckers!! The level/COST of these machines and the possibility of something going wrong with a 30k motor and or 12k tranny...I guess people would understandably error on the side of conservative and leave power on the table, even if it is reliable power out of ignorance and or peace of mind..... not me! You & a few others have proven there is much more reliable power to be had and I would like all of it!


When I put the 997.2 coolers in, I am going to see what delta difference there is and then see what a further tune can do to utilize the cooler IAT etc.
Again, I am hoping for a 6.7-6.8 pump (5.8 E85) and with a more aggressive tune for the coolers 6.5-6.6 pump(5.7 E85).....


Is it possible with a meth kit installed 6.0-6.2.?????

You being right around the corner is getting more and more tempting I must admit?!

 

**UPDATE: BROKE into the 6's on stock intercoolers and pump
- 60-130 -0.5% Decline, 9 degrees, PUMP GAS!


4th. : 6.96sec (-0.5% decline/0.64G)
3rd-4th: 6.97sec (0% decline/0.74G)
3rd-4th: 6.93sec (-2.1% decline "started late on this pull, hence the decline)/0.75G)


The reason I went out again before I do my intercoolers, is when I tested my 7.2's, this pull was in the same conditions as then. ie. It was 8-10 degrees out and I had a little over 1/4 tank of fuel. When I did my 7.0 flat's after Todd K's "more bottom end pump gas tune", it was 3/4 tank of fuel and 18.5 degrees out. I just wanted a fair back to back to compare the two tunes.


So I can say that I picked up 0.3sec from this latest revision tune as the conditions most match each other.


Now in 3rd -4th gear pulls, my car is consistently hitting 0.74-0.75G on pump verses 0.68-0.7's with the old tune.


Well hopefully I can get around to installing my 997.2 intercoolers SOON, and fingers cross for 6.7's on PUMP and 5.8's on E85!!

 

Congratulations Bobby
That's quick،!

 

Congrats on improving your personal best Still interested to see the delta once you get the ICs on.

 

I am VERY curious as well!


I had my uncle and cousin coming to help / also give moral support yesterday to install the 997.2 coolers, but my uncle couldn't make it so my cousin bailed!


If I am feeling better as I have been getting over being sick the past week, I will see if I can at least start it after work today as the suspense is killing me!! If I can even knock off 0.2 sec I would be very happy.


I just do not like working on cars any more as I did enough of that in my younger days and I just want to get in, drive and enjoy! That is why if I make a boyz night out of it, I would do it with some help. If not I would just have to bite the bullet and pay a shop to do it, but something so simple like this intercooler install I would rather save my labour $$ towards another drum of E85 and or more preferably a meth kit!


I asked in another thread, but I will ask again....When are you going to re-wheel your turbos, I can't wait to see the times you would pull!?


Other then the obvious, how do you do your 60-130 pulls?


What gear do you start in?
What speed do you floor it? ie. 35/40/50mph
If you start off in a gear other then 4th, what rpm do you shift at?


I just want to see from those that are leading the pack like you self, if I am leaving any time on the table. Again, if your recommendations improve my time it will not change my delta differences from my other 60-130 and doesn't mean I have a faster car then the last time I did my 60-130 with the same mods, but just means I have a better technique to achieving better times.


For example I have started to floor it at 50mph and notice more consistency in my times, instead of 35-40 mph? When I floor it at 35-40 boost can sometimes come on hard or the car thinks and boost ramps up slower pending if the car is in that time of month!


I am hoping to hit what you hit on stock turbos of 6.7 on pump with my 63.5's and I would be happy! I also would like to do 5.8-5.7 on E85 after Todd retunes for the intercoolers on E85.


From my understanding from Todds emails to me, he only wants to retune for E85 as he feels he can pick up some safe power, but feels I would be wasting my $$ to also pay him for a retune on pump. I personally thought it would be the other way around, but who am I to argue with Todd K. For my own peace of mind, after the 997.2 cooler install, I might shoot over my pump logs to Dzenno for a 2nd opinion to see if I can't make a little more SAFE power on pump.


I was under the delusion that I would just run my car only on E85 (I really really want to), but after the price of $750CDN a drum for VP C85 and going through 180L and getting only 660KM(413miles!), that is not happening...to me other then a serious run I might have set up or once in awhile, spending that $$ is just stupid as I like to drive my car a lot!!


I am trying to investigate a cheaper method of getting E85 here in Canada ....there has to be a way..this is crazy. My friend in cali teased me with a photo of a gas station with a pump E85 and something like $2 for 3.9L!!


Either way I am enjoying my car for the past 2 weeks on pump as it still pulls very solid and hopefully these coolers can improve on that. I just want to get closer to the E85 type of pulls!!




Thanks


Bobby Ali


ba

 

Haha, I'm not sure if/when I'm going to go with bigger turbos on my 997. I've looked into it extensively though, and if I do go with bigger VTGs, it'll be Sam@ bydesign's setup. To be honest, the performance of my car on the street with the factory turbos is already more than enough. It is a freaking freight train, and really the only difference with a set of HTZ wheel'd VTGs would be in the 5,500-7000 rpm range. My car has been 100% reliable, and is already fast as hell...it's a formula that I hate to mess with too much more I still have plenty of duty cycle left up high to add more boost on my factory setup, as it is the boost drops from 21 psi in the midrange to around 15-16 at redline. Mitch offered to raise it more to push me deeper into the 5s, but there hasn't been a need for that. If that need arises, I'll push the stockers harder first

Plus, I keep thinking about getting an additional 911, so that extra $10k would come in handy more with a new car rather than giving me another 50-60 whp. We'll see.

 

Another 911...uuhhhmmm...?????


To re-wheel your turbos should not cost anywhere near 10K even with labour re/re your turbos... so I am guessing you are talking about more then I am thinking about. You can get those re-wheels for less then $1800USD and labour what $600 if even? For 50-60RWHP and a longer power band deep into the 5500-7000rpm would be nice to see on your set up and for $1800 that is a great bang for buck!!


I can see what your saying as 5.9 is freaking moving OUT on the streets! When I run my E85 6sec flash, I feel the same that I DON'T NEED ANY MORE POWER for the streets (I know,I know well lets just say for now) and make me want to focus on other parts of the car ie putting the power DOWN, suspension, Better head unit that has BLUE TOOTH & BT STREAMING, and cosmetics. When I run my pump I am looking for more power even though it pull strong...just not E85 "well I am good in the power department" strong!


Do you have any recommendations for the previous question I asked:


"Other then the obvious, how do you do your 60-130 pulls?


What gear do you start in?
What speed do you floor it? ie. 35/40/50mph
If you start off in a gear other then 4th, what rpm do you shift at?"


Thanks


Bobby Ali


ba

 

I have a guy in Alberta who's selling me E85 for $325 a barrel (84.5% Ethanol). I used 2 1/4 barrels this year for the entire season. I'm not sure if it would be possible to ship to ON though.

 

That is more like it !!


I figure if you add 30% more to the price to compensate for the amount it uses over race fuel (MS109), I would be still ahead two fold!


I use my car for daily driving once in awhile once the weather is clear and warm during spring, summer and fall months. I am thinking I might need about 4 for the season. I used 180L out of my 205 in three weeks!


I wonder how much something like that would be to ship?


The person you are buying it from what is the company name/contact if you do not mind?


We need to some how make this more accessible to us in Ontario!




Thanks


Bobby Ali


ba

 

I talked about my 60-130 technique in my 5.9 60-130 thread. I'll quote it again for you here:

"Driving the car properly also makes a huge difference. Start in 3rd, not second or 4th. You must power shift 3rd to 4th for the best time. You need to start about 40 mph, and be good and fully into peak torque in 3rd by the time 60 mph comes up."

That's what I do. I don't think you need to find an uphill followed by a slight downhill for "perfect topography." If you need more load before 60 mph, that's what the brakes are for. Of course Cobb enables "brake boosting" by default...not sure about GIAC, or Todd.

Anyway, the $10k figure includes AMS ICs, and probably a new exhaust. My AWE unit is catted...and I figure I could gain a little more with a decat option

 

I have the AWE exhaust and bought the cat-delete pipes. I would recommend it to you. You mentioned something about turbo duty cycle, do you know what the optimum range is for the vtg turbos?


My Cobb tune has consistent boost from the midrange all the way up to 7k rpm. I am actually wondering if it adds power in the higher rpms or just generates heat. I will take a look at tapering boost and see what it does to timed acceleration runs and also iats, probably in the spring.