Hello All..

Now I know these threads exist in fragmented forms and are largely a case by case basis.

So I'll give you my Current situation.

Stock block, Running Meth, Crap 91 fuel (MS109 Sometimes as well...)
All supporting mods... Minus Intercoolers So far the Meth has kept my IATs in check.
Looking for more power. Have absolutely no allegiance to VNTs. and actually look forward to using a Electronic Boost Controller.

I've always loved the thought of the EFR turbos.
Lots of notes on the forums about the older alpha turbos, not so much about the newer Xonas (minus Mr. Boggs latest post)

I threw VNTs in, as they are a viable option. I do tend to think that the overall frame size is too small to be effective when you go to the bigger wheels. But I'm no M3Maestro.

I hear rumblings of a smaller frame EFR setup being offered by SRM, but it doesn't look like it's came to fruition.

Anyway, Sway me either way... I'm following Boggs build closely, as we share common crap gas, Canadian Winters, and Stock Blocks.

Looking to still have some streetable spool. So if anyone can lend some first hand experience, Please do!

 

Hi,

I have tuned a friends car with SRM EFR7163 kit.
It performs really well and offer from around 1 bar of minimum boost (at WOT) with the supplied wastegates. We have tested 2 bar and I think we have some more boost to give it.

It spools early and the VTGs are not missed at all actually.

We run it on Syvecs S6+ ECU.

I have almost the same stuff going on my car, but I am thinking of installing dual port wastegate to be able to lower boost below 1 bar.

XONA are not common in Europe so I have no opinion on them.
TiAL Alpha based on GTX 3076 is also a nice kit, but I think that EFR offer some extra nice features with its turbine, intergrated BOV etc.

BR
Erik

 

Hey Mitchy,
I'll update my thread as soon as there is anything to update.
I had heard a bit about the EFR turbos but just like with the Xonas there wasn't a whole lot of info out there. Kinda like the Champion 68s when I was first looking for them. I ended up saying whattheheck and just getting the 68s and no regrets. They are a great turbo with decent potential and excellent response. Very simple to just swap vtg for vtg with the associated parts of course (clutch, inlet pipes etc).
I like the idea of the EFR using the same brv and not having to mess with bovs because quite frankly it does intimidate me a bit. Won't be a big deal when it's all done but for a guy with no experience with bovs and ebcs it is a bit of a worry. Sam will be there to handhold if needed and my shop is good so they will figure things out too. I chose the Xona because it "made sense" based on my trust in Sam, Tial products, and the info I obtained. If Sam had recommended the EFR I would have gone with those. I'm not looking to break any records (other than my own performance times, lol) so I don't need the biggest or baddest. Good luck with your decision making.

 

Mitchy what power level are you looking for? The other big one is budget as you know. Bang for buck keep the vtg, bigger budget and looking for more power then I would go for the WGTs.

There is some data on the newer Xona stuff around harder to find though.

Without diving into the physics yes the bigger wheels in stock housings is not ideal. We end up losing diffuser diameter. We do work in the wheel and the diffuser and its the combination of both that determines performance of a compressor stage. However again for bang for buck, the Proto 63.5mm I have work ok and the other one I like what I see in the data is Sam's 68mm from TiAL. I honestly dont have clean data on the Champions...usually lower boost runs, hard to compare.

Been swamped at work, not much time for the forum. But I always like turbo related conversations

 

I would agree that the 63.5s are the best bang for the buck. Don't "need" to drop the engine since the larger inlet pipes aren't mandatory. That may be debatable, but the performance was pretty good on stock pipes. The Champion 68s were definitely a noticeable upgrade but the $$ involved were not insignificant...

 

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the responses!

It doesn't appear that my signature showed up on the original post, Strange...

I have the DO88 Inlet pipes already, and 1000cc injectors. No E-85 around here, so I should have plenty of fuel flow for now.
Meth injection is saving me for now, It's a pretty mild addition but works great. With the failsafes it's just as safe as running an E85 tune.

The "91" we get here isn't the best. In fact in got progressively worst since leaving Ontario and coming east... It was sad! What's funny is we actually have a refinery here... But it only produces fuel for the North East US

Back on track...

As for Budget, Obviously cheaper is better. But I'd sooner do it right the first time. I know whatever upgrade I have now is probably going to be the last turbo I buy for this car. Trying to Follow Boggs experience with constantly upgrading (Getting hit multiple times with import duty doesn't help either!)

People say the VTGs are cheaper, but minus the line kit. the two options are pretty close in cost (unless I'm missing something)

I've been talking with SRM and they do have several different size options. Haven't went as far as getting a 'all in' price, however the price seems equally matched to Sam's 68mm option. I'll be upgrading to SRM intercoolers as well.

The Xona's seem great, I'm really following Boggs build, However I'd like to stay MAF and not having to mess with the recirc valves make it a race between EFR and VTG.

Most of the EFR stories seem to come from the 996 crowd.

I'll be sure to touch base with Sam to see what he has to offer with his new 68mm's.

M3, I also may need your help with my truck turbos! With a tune, the new Ford Raptor turbos seem to be going into a overspeed situation giving some failures. Full Race is releasing a larger turbo compressor & Clipped wheel that should help. But it seems odd that we're already so close to the limits of the turbo.

 

Emailed you back bud!

 

Mitchy, are you in New Brunswick? I assume you're referring to Irving Oil?

I think the engine has to come down in order to get the boost controller hooked up so that is another cost difference between vtg and "other". You're right though, on the surface there isn't a huge difference in cost between 68vtgs and xonas. With 68s you could use the cost-effective .2tt intercoolers for most reasonable conditions - you're up here in Canada on the east coast so the outdoor temps should be moderate meaning the intercoolers should work okay. No harm in getting "better" ones to future proof yourself.

I really though the Champion 68s would be my last turbo. If the coolant line hadn't burst requiring an engine drop then they would have stayed on the car...

 

It depends. Some guys just want a factory-like set-up. The newer HTZ 68mm's are capable of 750+ to the wheels on the 997 and we have made 800+ on 991's. That said the Xona is obviously an awesome turbo and just chillin to make 750 wheel. Different sound out the turbine and more future potential but it is more work and you have a boost controller.

 

So you had a non-foreign object ejection incident, as opposed to what happened to mine.

 

lol, exactly. Couldn't justify a build like yours...maybe I'll just happen to drop a junior mint into the intake when the car is apart...

 

Nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

Hey Guys,
Been away for a few days.

Thanks for all the comments, Looks like I'll be taking the dive into the EFR route. Been doing some reading, Not sure if it'll be the 6758's or the 7163's.
Regardless It'll be interesting to compare some logs between the EFRs and your 3073's

Engine down isn't the end of the world. Wish I made this decision a few years back when I swapped the clutch and Pinned/Replaced my coolant lines.

Like you I've looked at the engine build to dream. 3.8L and Rods would be on my wish list. I'd probably go for it if we had someone in Canada that we could trust to do the build.

Bogg, I'm actually farther east... Newfoundland.. haha
My car actually came from the GTA, so you never know, they may have been stable mates at one point.

Sam, I'll still be in contact with you. Going to need a fresh tune

If anyone has some logs or data on the various EFR turbos, let me know. It'll be nice to have some defined data on a 'stock block'
All the builds seem to be based on 3.8L Built engines.

Cheers Guys!

 

I think the best question to ask here is which turbo's will provide the best area under the curve with good top end.

 

Good question. There used to be a really good thread about area under the curve but it hasn't been updated in a while...

Can barely find any info on some of these turbos so finding out the area under the curve for each sounds unlikely unfortunately.