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Custom tuning w/ By Design - lots of power - need new clutch

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997 Turbo / GT2 2006Ė2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

Custom tuning w/ By Design - lots of power - need new clutch

 
  #16  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by M3 Maestro View Post
Bogg how much boost on your 68s? Did you ever check with a gauge?
How much boost? All of it




I didn't know it at the time but the 22.5 value just means the sensor is maxed, I don't know the actual boost that was delivered
 
  #17  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Lol, thanks for the good laugh. I limit myself to changing the oil and very basic external maintenance. You are obviously in a different skill league if you would consider doing this yourself. I've never encountered anyone that said this was a straightforward job...
When I was born I didn't know how to do anything

With patience and determination you can learn how to do anything

The best thing since I was little and I got my start working on my first turbo flat 6 - a Corvair 180hp 1966 I think everything has gotten easier with the internet. Back in those days everything was by shop manual.

With the internet you can find help on just about any topic.

One thing for sure - if you found a way to get some rods and maybe some head studs in your car that thing would be a real monster kind of like we used to say "taking off the panties" when the world was less politically correct

Having owned a couple of 9 second cars and gone over 1,000 whp I can't say I blame you for your apprehension but it seems clear to me that the rods are your next step

Myself on the other hand I am purposely keeping my build at 600 - 650 whp on the mark at this point to avoid many of the pitfalls I have been through in the past - in fact this was one of the main reasons why I bought a 997.1 in the first place (because it is so easily modified) and I like a manual trans car
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
How much boost? All of it




I didn't know it at the time but the 22.5 value just means the sensor is maxed, I don't know the actual boost that was delivered
Yes you would need a bigger MAP sensor - not sure if the Cobb supports that modification on this platform

You probably did not use ALL the boost as Champion claims the 68 turbos are rated at 475 per turbo which certainly would have finished your rods

I am sure that Sam had everything under control
 

Last edited by 08957; 06-26-2018 at 07:13 PM.
  #19  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg
How much boost? All of it


o
You remind me of Prodigy
 
  #20  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by M3 Maestro View Post
You remind me of Prodigy
lol that's right, he came up with that
 
  #21  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 08957 View Post
Yes you would need a bigger MAP sensor - not sure if the Cobb supports that modification on this platform

You probably did not use ALL the boost as Champion claims the 68 turbos are rated at 475 per turbo which certainly would have finished your rods

I am sure that Sam had everything under control
Cobb does support 2 bar map sensor.
I had a different brand Cobb custom tune and was in talks with Sam about a new custom tune when a coolant hose blew. Since the engine was coming down I decided to put on Xonas after a little research.
 
  #22  
Old 06-26-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Cobb does support 2 bar map sensor.
I had a different brand Cobb custom tune and was in talks with Sam about a new custom tune when a coolant hose blew. Since the engine was coming down I decided to put on Xonas after a little research.
I would say you got away lucky with that "different brand" tune as without knowing what the boost is at whom ever was doing the tuning was playing blind. That "different brand" could have wound up costing you a lot of money

I think as a tuner the first thing you do when you see the map sensor voltage hit peak is stop and go for a bigger map sensor - OR - turn down the boost so the map sensor is less than peak. In fact on most tunes I would do I would set a fuel cut or boost limit right at the limit of the map sensor to prevent over boosting in the event of a hose coming of a wastegate

Now when that engine was down would have been a great time to do the rods - lol

Thankfully you are in good and safe hands now - I like Sam's careful and slow approach to the tuning process and starting off on the low side and working up slowly
 
  #23  
Old 06-26-2018, 08:26 PM
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Had to chase down UPS truck I got really busy today but your stuff is on the way buddy! Asher she was looking pretty good did go crazy again? The three bar hasn’t been my favorite on the 997.1. But when we see around 22 PSI climbing at the set rate I can tell you from the logs how she’s doing and get it all sorted. It’s looking good so far but it looks like you may have gone out of the range you were in. Safety settings are in place.
 
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  #24  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Had to chase down UPS truck I got really busy today but your stuff is on the way buddy! Asher she was looking pretty good did go crazy again? The three bar hasnít been my favorite on the 997.1. But when we see around 22 PSI climbing at the set rate I can tell you from the logs how sheís doing and get it all sorted. Itís looking good so far but it looks like you may have gone out of the range you were in. Safety settings are in place.
Hey Sam, things look good, almost at goal. I think you misunderstood, the graph above is the Champion 68s maxing the stock MAP sensor.
 
  #25  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 08957 View Post
I would say you got away lucky with that "different brand" tune as without knowing what the boost is at whom ever was doing the tuning was playing blind. That "different brand" could have wound up costing you a lot of money

I think as a tuner the first thing you do when you see the map sensor voltage hit peak is stop and go for a bigger map sensor - OR - turn down the boost so the map sensor is less than peak. In fact on most tunes I would do I would set a fuel cut or boost limit right at the limit of the map sensor to prevent over boosting in the event of a hose coming of a wastegate

Now when that engine was down would have been a great time to do the rods - lol

Thankfully you are in good and safe hands now - I like Sam's careful and slow approach to the tuning process and starting off on the low side and working up slowly
That version of the tune was done on the Mustang AWD dyno so I'm sure he knew exactly what the boost was at the time. I just don't know what the number is for boost because it maxes the stock map sensor. Based on calculated "load" and the pbox performance I doubt it's much higher than 23psi or so, but that's just a guess. Not that it matters anymore anyway, lol. Drove the car for a long time with that tune and don't think there were any tune-related problems. The leakdown was very consistent between cylinders when it was recently tested.
 
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:39 AM
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Got ya A thanks! Almost there!
 
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  #27  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:00 PM
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While there are plenty of maps with boost pressure as an axis, there's still the MAF sensors for load calculation.

I have the 3 bar on mine and the maps scaled for it, but ever since I upgraded to the Do88 big pack, I haven't needed it as my max flow numbers are still the same at 20-21 psi as they were at 23-24 PSI on the factory piping and 997.2 ICs.
 
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
While there are plenty of maps with boost pressure as an axis, there's still the MAF sensors for load calculation.

I have the 3 bar on mine and the maps scaled for it, but ever since I upgraded to the Do88 big pack, I haven't needed it as my max flow numbers are still the same at 20-21 psi as they were at 23-24 PSI on the factory piping and 997.2 ICs.
I'm also impressed with the big pack - keeps the temps under control even on hot days (i.e. they don't skyrocket)
 
  #29  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
While there are plenty of maps with boost pressure as an axis, there's still the MAF sensors for load calculation.

I have the 3 bar on mine and the maps scaled for it, but ever since I upgraded to the Do88 big pack, I haven't needed it as my max flow numbers are still the same at 20-21 psi as they were at 23-24 PSI on the factory piping and 997.2 ICs.
It seems that you are making a lot of power for stock turbos. If you don't mind me asking how did you calculate the power level? If you are making that much power I would think out loud that no matter how much higher you raised the boost the power would not go up any higher.

The reason why the boost is lower for the same airflow on larger intercoolers is because the air is cooler and more dense. I experienced the same situation when I installed the AMS intercoolers. Based upon my experience the intercoolers are a huge benefit.
 
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 08957 View Post
It seems that you are making a lot of power for stock turbos. If you don't mind me asking how did you calculate the power level? If you are making that much power I would think out loud that no matter how much higher you raised the boost the power would not go up any higher.

The reason why the boost is lower for the same airflow on larger intercoolers is because the air is cooler and more dense. I experienced the same situation when I installed the AMS intercoolers. Based upon my experience the intercoolers are a huge benefit.

My car was dyno tuned on TopSpeedís dyno. I know precisely how much it makes, haha. Thereís a thread here with all the dyno charts.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-warning.html

Boost levels didnt change post intercooler install. I actually had the load targets/boost lowered in my maps once I got the big intercoolers because the car was making enough torque to slip my upgraded clutch slightly on my hottest E85 map. Thatís too much for my liking on the factory motor. My solution was to lower boost down until airflow values were similar to my pre-install logs which resulted in 2-3 psi less across the board depending on RPM.
 

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