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Custom tuning w/ By Design - lots of power - need new clutch

997 Turbo / GT2 2006–2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

Custom tuning w/ By Design - lots of power - need new clutch

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Old 06-26-2018, 12:23 AM
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Custom tuning w/ By Design - lots of power - need new clutch

My saga continues after being so long in the "keeping it stock club" I decided to turn up the wick on my 997.1 a bit and get away from the stock vacuum cleaner like sound

After installing the wonderful Europipe and AMS Intercoolers I found that the car adapted and lowered the boost levels slightly

Being stuck in this situation I turned to Sam at By Design who has provided world class customer service and technical guidance to bump up the Cobb base maps that simply were lacking

After a few data logs back and forth and a few of Sam's maps the car started to get significantly faster - even though the tune was having less knock than the original Cobb map and the data logs showing that things were very conservative and safe (I am very experienced around tuning and can read a data log)

The good news is that I must have picked up about 30 - 40 additional whp and the car felt much better. One thing I noticed about Sam's maps was that the maps he sent me took about twice as long to load into the car than the Cobb base maps which means that he is altering more of the factory map areas - this results in the car feeling more crisp on tip in and also avoiding knock that previously existed in that area. Also, it seems that he is working with the cam angle tuning also. It is hard for me to tell all of the areas of the map that he is working in as all I can see is the data logs and my but dyno feel driving the car.

The bad news - all this extra power and now I need a new clutch - we used to call that job security when I was in the car business LOL

Thanks again to Sam at By Design - best customer service and tuning experience ever

I highly recommend Sam and By Design

Thanks to Sam's tune blowing out my clutch with only 14k miles I ordered a stronger clutch and some other goodies from Sam and I am getting ready to turn up the wick

Now that I have someone reliable and intelligent and responsive to work with when it comes to my tuning needs I am finally ready to explore some additional modification
 

Last edited by 08957; 06-26-2018 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:40 AM
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Very common. The factory clutch is only good for milder tunes. Any of the newer stuff that ups the power to more inline of what the hardware is actually capable will lead to clutch slip. Congrats on the newfound power. I’ve been very happy with my Sachs “2.5”. It has held 700 wtq for nearly 4 years now without a single issue.
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:33 AM
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how much knock were you getting before, and after? and what are your ambient temps?
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:57 AM
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I was getting massive amounts of knocking with the OTS maps so I had to start running MS109 in my car to use them

I would do a data log if I were running any OTS non custom maps to check for knock

My ambient temps where like a blow drier when I had the stock intercoolers - reaching 137 to 140 at the and of a 2nd to 4rd pull in 75 degree temps

With the AMS intercoolers I am in the low 90's at the end of the same pull even in low 80's air temps as long as the car is moving

if the car is sitting still it does tend to pick up hot air soak from the engine bay which is quickly cooled off when you start to run the car

I would think the AMS intercoolers would be ideal for a road race style track day and not as good for drag racing unless you gave them a fine mist of cool water in the staging lanes - I think that would help a lot - I remember the Subaru STI used to have a top mount intercooler sprayer
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:09 AM
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Glad to hear about your experience with Sam and tune, sorry to hear about the clutch Sam has always treated me excellent which is rare to find as most of us know. All the dyno information over time you saw on my car in the other post are Sam's calibrations.

You had asked what software it was. Virtual Dyno is program. Like any simulation garbage in garbage out. It can be very accurate when used correctly. We have tested it multiple times, I introduced Sam to it and he has now used it multiple times with success comparing it back to a dyno. If you want to know more about it just PM me and I can give you tips on it.

Looking forward to hearing about the new goodies ordered from Sam.
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:20 AM
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Once the bug hits you and you start messing around then the end result is . . . well lets just say it is an illness

In any event I greatly appreciate all of your dyno sheets I greatly helped me in selecting my turbo choice and is very useful information indeed. You would think that the tuners and vendors would be the ones with this kind of great data. In any event your chart really showed the give and take between the various wheel options and hp vs. spool up and boost level - great info

I am looking to make about 600 whp on a conservative pump gas tune and see how I enjoy driving the car at that power level before making any other decisions

After having owned two very highly modified turbo AWD vehicles in the past for this project I want to maintain as much as possible the stock like driveability and feel as possible while increasing the power production

After years of experience I remember that when you have a 700 plus whp car on the road it becomes very hard to tell the difference between 50 whp one way or the other

There is a certain spot where the expense, reliability and breakage become overly costly and negate the benefits of increased gains for those who seek to maintain financial solvency
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:46 AM
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Thanks for the great review buddy. Glad to be among those items you’ve received and people you have dealt with that you’ve been very happy with so far. Nice to finally realize who is who it gets confusing between emails and all the different communications and screen names. I think you’re gonna love this and you’re being conservative on your request so it’s going to be easy to make you happy being conservative. Maestro has been a huge resource to the community. Sometimes I’m reluctant to share too much information because everyone has different hardware and different expectations. So we treat every single car/friend individually and maximize as much as possible. I always appreciate and mention my awesome team. We come together with everything required to have amazing results and I do my best to maintain the “Nordstrom Level Service” as a few great clients put it during the process. Cheers guys!
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:05 PM
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Like Iv'e always said you cant go wrong with Sam. Not only are his prices great but the knowledge he provides is priceless.
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ctony66 View Post
Like Iv'e always said you cant go wrong with Sam. Not only are his prices great but the knowledge he provides is priceless.
I agree he is a invaluable asset to the community and provides top notch support and guidance.

If anyone has any questions I would suggest that you contact him or Stef at Europipe and I have found them both to be really good people and a pleasure to do business with
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:18 PM
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Welcome to "Sam's Club", the other one, lol. You'll love the upgrades, it's such a transformation going from close to stock to well tuned vtgs. And if you still have the upgrade bug at that point I'm sure Sam will point you in the right direction...cough cough Xona cough cough
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Welcome to "Sam's Club", the other one, lol. You'll love the upgrades, it's such a transformation going from close to stock to well tuned vtgs. And if you still have the upgrade bug at that point I'm sure Sam will point you in the right direction...cough cough Xona cough cough
I have been reading your thread with great interest

With the amazing turbos that you have I don't know why you don't change the rods and oil pump so you can rev the car higher and turn up the boost higher and really take advantage of those turbos

Turbos like that really start to make serious power with higher boost which of course you can not run with these stock rods
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 08957 View Post
I have been reading your thread with great interest

With the amazing turbos that you have I don't know why you don't change the rods and oil pump so you can rev the car higher and turn up the boost higher and really take advantage of those turbos

Turbos like that really start to make serious power with higher boost which of course you can not run with these stock rods
3 words - money, headaches, expertise.

I hear what you are saying. I've gotten a taste of the power and I see why people want more. But I drive this car regularly to work so OEM level driveability is important.

don't know anyone around here who I would want swapping rods and don't want to be without the car for months again. If the opportunity came up, for example a camshaft issue that needed an engine drop and camshafts replaced, then maybe.

the xonas are still a worthwhile upgrade over my 68s even on pumpgas with less boost than I ran on the 68s
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:37 PM
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Bogg how much boost on your 68s? Did you ever check with a gauge?
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
3 words - money, headaches, expertise.

I hear what you are saying. I've gotten a taste of the power and I see why people want more. But I drive this car regularly to work so OEM level driveability is important.

don't know anyone around here who I would want swapping rods and don't want to be without the car for months again. If the opportunity came up, for example a camshaft issue that needed an engine drop and camshafts replaced, then maybe.

the xonas are still a worthwhile upgrade over my 68s even on pumpgas with less boost than I ran on the 68s
Do you drive the car in the winter?

Why not change the rods yourself over the winter - you need a few special tools but it looks like a fairly straightforward job

I am planning to put in some rods over the winter this year - I never drive my 911's from December through March anyway. I think the number one thing this car needs to make it really enjoyable and fast is another few hundred rpms before you have to shift

From my years of experience in tuning cars I have found that turbos like the ones you have just got will always find the weak link in your motor / power train

Luckily from what I have gathered thus far when the rods go in these cars they do not snap in half like some other cars it seems like they tend to bend first

Back in the day I had a friend in South America with a really fast Subaru making over 850 whp. Since his Carrillo rods were literally bending, eventually they came out with the "Pro H" rod rated at 275 hp per rod which was a heavier rod that could take the power. The good thing was the Carrillo rods were so tough that the old style never snapped - they always bent slightly - kind of like a fuse for the engine limiting your power. With the advent of everyone running alcohol and the newer turbos rods are under a lot of stress
 
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 08957 View Post

Why not change the rods yourself over the winter - you need a few special tools but it looks like a fairly straightforward job
Lol, thanks for the good laugh. I limit myself to changing the oil and very basic external maintenance. You are obviously in a different skill league if you would consider doing this yourself. I've never encountered anyone that said this was a straightforward job...
 
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