PCCB In The Wet: Scary or Problematic?
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It's funny this thread came back. had my first loooong drive in a pretty heavy, steady rain along the Jersey TPK a few weeks ago on my way to Phila.
You're usually not doing a lot of braking on the TPK and I was a bit surprised the first time I had to brake. I was like "whoah, this is what they're talking about". There was not a lot there. This was not a panic stop, just a gentle touch to slow down. If it were a panic the car would stop just as well. it just feels different.
As Jason said, if it makes you feel better just tap them every now and then or once you get past the "1st time" it won't be a surprise anymore.
Still glad I have them and would buy them again
You're usually not doing a lot of braking on the TPK and I was a bit surprised the first time I had to brake. I was like "whoah, this is what they're talking about". There was not a lot there. This was not a panic stop, just a gentle touch to slow down. If it were a panic the car would stop just as well. it just feels different.
As Jason said, if it makes you feel better just tap them every now and then or once you get past the "1st time" it won't be a surprise anymore.
Still glad I have them and would buy them again
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Hi Jason,
I'd assume Northwest US residents would be the people one should ask about a car's behavior in the rain! I remember being puzzled at the varied responses to my original question. Guess I should have just emailed and talked to you privately.
Questions please: Is there anything negative to using brake fluid with higher boiling temp? Do you happen to know what Porsche uses in the car as shipped from factory?
My friend recently had the scheduled 2 year service (?) done by the Porsche dealership. They did flush and change the brake fluid for him.
I'd assume Northwest US residents would be the people one should ask about a car's behavior in the rain! I remember being puzzled at the varied responses to my original question. Guess I should have just emailed and talked to you privately.
Questions please: Is there anything negative to using brake fluid with higher boiling temp? Do you happen to know what Porsche uses in the car as shipped from factory?
My friend recently had the scheduled 2 year service (?) done by the Porsche dealership. They did flush and change the brake fluid for him.
Can,
I still remember the first time I experienced the "oh S***" feeling when I pressed my brakes after a heavy downpour. Now I'm used to it. Just have to remember to either press lightly on the pedals periodically as I stated earlier or press the pedal harder than usual. It's really easy to be lulled into a false sense of security by these awesome brakes in the dry. They're good but they're not perfect.
I also experienced a similar scary feel after a hard driving session through a series of twisties to the point where I "boiled" my OEM brake fluids. You're supposed to flush out the brake system on high performance sports cars once a year. I recently had this done but I elected to go with Castrol SRF braking fluid which has a higher boiling point.
I still remember the first time I experienced the "oh S***" feeling when I pressed my brakes after a heavy downpour. Now I'm used to it. Just have to remember to either press lightly on the pedals periodically as I stated earlier or press the pedal harder than usual. It's really easy to be lulled into a false sense of security by these awesome brakes in the dry. They're good but they're not perfect.
I also experienced a similar scary feel after a hard driving session through a series of twisties to the point where I "boiled" my OEM brake fluids. You're supposed to flush out the brake system on high performance sports cars once a year. I recently had this done but I elected to go with Castrol SRF braking fluid which has a higher boiling point.
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Can,
Feel free to send me a PM anytime and we can continue this conversation offline via email. We probably will end up talking about cameras and such too. I'm due to pick up my new Nikon D3 and 14-24mm lenses soon.
As you'd no doubt surmised, we Northwesterns get a fair amount of rain up here. So as a result, I have become used to the PCCB behavior in the wet. It's not so bad once you get used to it. Just remember to tap the brake pedal periodically as I'd stated a couple times before.
I also drove my car a couple times on a couple of back roads with plenty of brake use. The first time it happened at one point, I thought there was something wrong with my brakes. I didn't exactly lose brake pressure completely, but it felt similar to how you'd experienced in the wet. I talked to my service advisor about it and discovered that it was because I'd reached the boiling point. At that point, the chemical properties begins to break down and so thus he recommended that I flush my fluids. At the time I didn't because I knew I'd want to swap the fluids out for something else with a higher boiling point. I know that Porsche uses their OEM DOT 4 brake fluids which has a lower boiling point than the Castrol SRF. I don't think you'd need it unless you plan to drive your car aggressively on back roads like I do.
Feel free to send me a PM anytime and we can continue this conversation offline via email. We probably will end up talking about cameras and such too. I'm due to pick up my new Nikon D3 and 14-24mm lenses soon.
As you'd no doubt surmised, we Northwesterns get a fair amount of rain up here. So as a result, I have become used to the PCCB behavior in the wet. It's not so bad once you get used to it. Just remember to tap the brake pedal periodically as I'd stated a couple times before.
I also drove my car a couple times on a couple of back roads with plenty of brake use. The first time it happened at one point, I thought there was something wrong with my brakes. I didn't exactly lose brake pressure completely, but it felt similar to how you'd experienced in the wet. I talked to my service advisor about it and discovered that it was because I'd reached the boiling point. At that point, the chemical properties begins to break down and so thus he recommended that I flush my fluids. At the time I didn't because I knew I'd want to swap the fluids out for something else with a higher boiling point. I know that Porsche uses their OEM DOT 4 brake fluids which has a lower boiling point than the Castrol SRF. I don't think you'd need it unless you plan to drive your car aggressively on back roads like I do.
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Can,
Feel free to send me a PM anytime and we can continue this conversation offline via email. We probably will end up talking about cameras and such too. I'm due to pick up my new Nikon D3 and 14-24mm lenses soon.
As you'd no doubt surmised, we Northwesterns get a fair amount of rain up here. So as a result, I have become used to the PCCB behavior in the wet. It's not so bad once you get used to it. Just remember to tap the brake pedal periodically as I'd stated a couple times before.
I also drove my car a couple times on a couple of back roads with plenty of brake use. The first time it happened at one point, I thought there was something wrong with my brakes. I didn't exactly lose brake pressure completely, but it felt similar to how you'd experienced in the wet. I talked to my service advisor about it and discovered that it was because I'd reached the boiling point. At that point, the chemical properties begins to break down and so thus he recommended that I flush my fluids. At the time I didn't because I knew I'd want to swap the fluids out for something else with a higher boiling point. I know that Porsche uses their OEM DOT 4 brake fluids which has a lower boiling point than the Castrol SRF. I don't think you'd need it unless you plan to drive your car aggressively on back roads like I do.
Feel free to send me a PM anytime and we can continue this conversation offline via email. We probably will end up talking about cameras and such too. I'm due to pick up my new Nikon D3 and 14-24mm lenses soon.
As you'd no doubt surmised, we Northwesterns get a fair amount of rain up here. So as a result, I have become used to the PCCB behavior in the wet. It's not so bad once you get used to it. Just remember to tap the brake pedal periodically as I'd stated a couple times before.
I also drove my car a couple times on a couple of back roads with plenty of brake use. The first time it happened at one point, I thought there was something wrong with my brakes. I didn't exactly lose brake pressure completely, but it felt similar to how you'd experienced in the wet. I talked to my service advisor about it and discovered that it was because I'd reached the boiling point. At that point, the chemical properties begins to break down and so thus he recommended that I flush my fluids. At the time I didn't because I knew I'd want to swap the fluids out for something else with a higher boiling point. I know that Porsche uses their OEM DOT 4 brake fluids which has a lower boiling point than the Castrol SRF. I don't think you'd need it unless you plan to drive your car aggressively on back roads like I do.
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It's only an issue if you drive for a while in the rain such as on the highways from one point to another. You'll probably notice that some extra effort is needed when pressing the brakes. It's really easy to be lulled into a false sense of security by these awe inspiring ceramics in the dry. You get used to the ceramics after driving the car for a while. I still would get them despite those shortcomings. BTW, they're Gen II ceramics, not III.
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All of the instructors, including me, at our regional PDE have found PCCB's to stop the car in a shorter distance than comparable steel brakes (NA and turbo) - we have even tested this using markers on the track. They are not as linear IMHO in terms of trailbraking or as easy to heel and toe as the steels, but I have driven them a great deal on the track and street in heavy rain with no problems. There are now 3 generations of PCCBs, you can tell by the rotor patterns.
Talking to Porsche salespeople is a waste of time.
Talking to Porsche salespeople is a waste of time.
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[quote=996TTX50JRZ;1500706]All of the instructors, including me, at our regional PDE have found PCCB's to stop the car in a shorter distance than comparable steel brakes (NA and turbo) - we have even tested this using markers on the track. They are not as linear IMHO in terms of trailbraking or as easy to heel and toe as the steels, but I have driven them a great deal on the track and street in heavy rain with no problems. There are now 3 generations of PCCBs, you can tell by the rotor patterns.
This echo's my experience at the PDE's. In fact I had posted several months back that I had regretted getting the PCCB's, because the steel's were so much easier to modulate and the heel and toeing was also easier. Now that I've driven the PCCB's for while, I guess I've gotten used to them. As for performance in the rain I really can't say, but I do believe you lose some initial bite after driving for a long distance. Braking ability doesn't seem to be degraded that much. It feels more like you have lost your power brake boost briefly. But to be honest, I usually just park it during the Pacific Northwest monsoon season (October through June). For example we just got 6 inches of rain in the last 12 hours. I bought a car not a freakin' boat!
This echo's my experience at the PDE's. In fact I had posted several months back that I had regretted getting the PCCB's, because the steel's were so much easier to modulate and the heel and toeing was also easier. Now that I've driven the PCCB's for while, I guess I've gotten used to them. As for performance in the rain I really can't say, but I do believe you lose some initial bite after driving for a long distance. Braking ability doesn't seem to be degraded that much. It feels more like you have lost your power brake boost briefly. But to be honest, I usually just park it during the Pacific Northwest monsoon season (October through June). For example we just got 6 inches of rain in the last 12 hours. I bought a car not a freakin' boat!
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Hey Jason - this is all great discussion - didn't know about the rain issues. As you may have seen, I did order mine w/PCCB. The car I drove in Europe did have the PCCB and I noticed immediately how much better they felt and handled compared to my reds I have now. We drove in rain and slush, but I did not notice any difference. My friend with a new GT3 said they don't handle as well on the track to him. I thought Barrier said they are on Gen III PCCB on the cars now ? Or am I mistaken?
Then you could use him as a hood ornament!
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It's only an issue if you drive for a while in the rain such as on the highways from one point to another. You'll probably notice that some extra effort is needed when pressing the brakes. It's really easy to be lulled into a false sense of security by these awe inspiring ceramics in the dry. You get used to the ceramics after driving the car for a while. I still would get them despite those shortcomings. BTW, they're Gen II ceramics, not III.
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Larry's got quite the sense of humor doesn't he?
I'm a bit confused too about the Gen 1/2/3. I was under the impression that the first generation ceramics were available up until 2004 and then the second generation ceramics were implemented. Where does Gen 3 come into the picture?
I'm a bit confused too about the Gen 1/2/3. I was under the impression that the first generation ceramics were available up until 2004 and then the second generation ceramics were implemented. Where does Gen 3 come into the picture?
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Larry's got quite the sense of humor doesn't he?
I'm a bit confused too about the Gen 1/2/3. I was under the impression that the first generation ceramics were available up until 2004 and then the second generation ceramics were implemented. Where does Gen 3 come into the picture?
I'm a bit confused too about the Gen 1/2/3. I was under the impression that the first generation ceramics were available up until 2004 and then the second generation ceramics were implemented. Where does Gen 3 come into the picture?
Yes, Larry is a hoot. if Larry met my husband he would really appreciate what he said. Mark is a very big man!
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I think I heard something on Top Gear that said..."If you use em' alot they glow bright red, And if you really overheat em' the rotors will start on fire(not a huge bomb fire, but small flames) Is this true?
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I will definately keep this in mind if my new car has the PCCB option. I too am in the NW and in the past several days I have driven through 9 inches of water at least then needed to brake! Very interesting, glad people are on top of this!
