I'm on my second Denison, same issues. I've given up.

 

Chris:

I never heard back on the following:

PIWIS read on your MOST bus
Updated Firmware done
AUX switched changed

We sent the new kit so you could do all of the changeouts. Please let me know what's been done to date, and what the results were (obviously not good). I would suspect either the AUX switch or a bad head unit at this point. Not likely to have two bad Densions in a row.

Let me know bud.

 

I'm on my third NAVTV unit. My installer is a very well respected high-end guy who works on Porsches all day long. My installer has been speaking with NAVTV and has not gotten any useful assistance for my particular problem, other than replacement units which don't help. If NAVTV makes DICE, then you're right, I should try Dension.

 

your guy is missing something then. Where exactly is he putting it on the Fiber Optics? What other accys do you have on the ring? feel free to call the guys at Esoteric and ask for Jim over there, 440.716.2720 he will be able to help you out. Otherwise you can call me up and I will put you on the phone with my 8 year old and he will be able to talk all about it, nodes, placement, function blocks, data transfer.... (he is learning how to read from the tech manual but has to know what he is reading)

I can honestly say out of 25 iPods in the past few months, I seen one bad one, and that was a customer supplied one.

What exactly is your issue with it?

Also, unless you are in the Bermuda Triangle, I can say that i would rule out the NavTV iPod interface being the issue and would come to the assumption that the tech is missing something

 

The head unit was checked by the dealer twice, Eddie at DD checked out the install, no issues. I changed both the unit and aux switch, in fact the only constant variable was the 2.05 reflash, in retrospect it was a big mistake to download that again into the new box.

 

Go back to 2.03, I sent it yesterday.

 

For whatever its worth, Alex installed a Dension in my car last week and its been easy to use and no issues at all.......the iPod interface works like a charm.

 

As it should....

 

LOL. Give it a week

 

I just learned that it's not the DICE that my installer wants to try. It's the mObridge. I see there are some other posts about the mObridge, so I'm gonna go read those...

 

Eric, I can't seem to get my unit into configuration menu anymore. I'm using the latest 2.05 firmware, latest Ipod firmware and tried the toggle multiple times and no dice. Any suggestions? I've also reset the unit using a pin in the tiny aux unit hole.

 

JohhnyD...email me so I can create a ticket for you:

model/year/headunit

Also, look here: http://support.dension.com/downloads...2007.06.25.pdf



eric@bumperplugs.com

 

I just bought the m0bridge after extensive research on the NAV-TV, DICE, Denison, and m0bridge (from here, on rennteam, on edmunds, etc.), and it arrived today. I was actually going to buy the NAV-TV before I found out about the m0bridge and the remaining NAV-TV issues. Now all I need is my ordered 2008 Turbo Cab (which should arrive at the dealer any day after a 10 day hold in PDI in San Diego ) to try it out.

Reasons I went with the m0bridge over the others (note: no personal experience here yet):

* Stability. It seems that both the NAV-TV and Denison have serious stability issues (with more than one report of problems for each). The m0bridge (albeit based on far fewer reports since it is newer) appears to be much more stable.
* m0bridge claims to be a certified Apple partner, so they have access to Apple's specs for the iPod interface, rather than reverse engineering it as the others have had to. They also have to abide by many conditions laid down by Apple as well.
* Thus, it is supposed to work even with the latest generation of iPods. I have the 160GB classic, so this is important. The NAV-TV appears to have some issues with the latest generation - again possibly as they don't have direct access to Apple's documentation
* They also seem to be a MOST partner. In particular, they say that according to MOST specifications, all devices on the fiber ring need a constant source of power (B+, i.e. not switched with the ignition) to work properly. The device will then automatically switch in and out of sleep mode based on fiber signals. This may be a problem with installs of other hardware?
* It's firmware upgradeable using an SD card. SD card MP3 playback is not there yet, but plans are there in future firmware.
* Aux in 3.5mm jack as standard (NAV-TV is $99 optional extra)
* You can go beyond 99 items (up to 10,000) in a list through paging 99 at a time. NAV-TV only pages 30 at a time, up to 99 max I think
* Shuffle and repeat both work, but they reset to no-shuffle no-repeat on engine off due to a PCM limitation. I think shuffle doesn't work on the latest iPods with the NAV-TV (one of a few problems with the latest ones)
* You can exit the ipod touch wheel lock-out through the PCM and still get the audio out, so if there are any control issues from the PCM CD-changed emulation (e.g. not being able to access podcasts as per the NAV-TV) you can still control the device using the touch wheel
* $599 price point includes everything

I'll have it installed in the next couple of weeks and will have a much better sense of if it lives up to the promises then. However, based on phone and email interactions with Scott Nelson (their main employee in the US, in Redondo Beach, CA), I have been very impressed with his knowledge and service to date.

He did say they are short of inventory however, and it may be a few weeks till they get their next batch, as they are just starting up in the US in the past couple of months. So you may want to order now - there is a money-back guarantee if it doesn't work properly - this is what I did!

 

A "quick" note from mObridge:

... And we'll be glad to support any one of you just the same! It's true we are dwindling on supply, and the next couple of weeks will be a test of courage for us! Mid-December we'll be refreshed with supply.

So our apologies, too, if some of you inquired via the webpage around Sept./early Oct. but did not get a response. For 1-2 mos. the email load was so heavy that our small staff and lack of CRM tools had a hard time keeping touch and some inquiries did not get the attention they deserved. Gradually we are going back though the backlog from that period and getting back in touch. But I have to encourage you: please do hit us up again as we are on track with all inquiries and have new systems up and running in order to properly support every inquiry you send us!

Some general thoughts and ramblings:

In any of these applications on MOST, (mirroring what JBONDOx said) the installer is key. There are a lot of "gotchas" that, with a little patience and instruction, the problems simply go away, no matter who the supplier is -- NAV-TV, DICE, Dension, mObridge ...

Though, there are those that seemingly don't, as it seems many have experienced already. I have to give it to the other makers as mentioned by sfguy ... this is not an easy market and the technicalities and business hurdles to getting to the point of operable (even operable with problems) product are monumental. For even a tier-1 automotive supplier (Alpine, Becker, Bosch/Blaupunkt, Continental/Motorola, Siemens VDO, Delphi, Denso, Visteon, etc [sorry if I missed anyone]), for many reasons, the entry price in sunk cost engineering is $10M to $50M (depending upon the scope of product) just to get operable, mass production product on the MOST bus. So again, for us to be sitting here with aftermarket integration products at our doorsteps is a phenomenal breakthrough. No doubt attributable to the 4-6 top-talent engineers/executives at each of these companies x 3-5 year's time and you can see how the engineering equates. Granted, we all owe much of our ability to step into this market at all to the huge advancements by the semiconductor companies such as SMSC/Oasis and the microprocessor suppliers, the MOST Cooperation, the availability of commodity components (AMP-Tyco, Yazaki, Delphi, etc) the decline in memory costs, and the general leaps in availability of web technology and software tools.

You can believe none of the principals in mObridge would have ever exposed ourselves to this if we didn't believe in it, and the ability to offer something compelling and valuable to the market.

So our hats off to everyone that's been in this space so far as we've all been pioneers. In fact, if it were not for one or two of our principals there would have been a German car or two that would not have gotten to market at the timing it did, if ever. That statement, by the way, pretty much does not apply to Porsche, but it is an interesting history.

But we're getting to the point where you have a significant CUSTOMER KNOWLEDGE BASE building out there and this is so awesome to see and be immersed in. We will contribute what we can to the community and do have some materials, which I'm sure our users will post here and on other boards (which is fine and actually recommended).

Getting down to brass tacks, I guess some of the biggies are:

• Being connected to B+ constant battery. This is MOST specification. If a unit doesn't have constant power, then all bets are off as to when it comes up and the sequence of communication with other units. Therefore, to put all on a level playing field, they all get constant power. Ignition signal can be supplemental by another input or simply by MOST optical signal.
• MUST NOT have CD Changer (CDC) connected in the MOST ring in Porsche. Those that do will experience errors and crashes. It was the case some time ago that the Porsche head unit software allowed multiple CDC and therefore these iPod integration devices played nicely in conjunction. At some point there was a software change and we lost that ability, along with the instability/errors. We can only hope at some point that it reverts the other way again.
• Cannot expect MOST to be "plug and play". If you disconnect/reconnect units on the MOST bus (break the optical ring open at all, for that matter), the entire system needs to shut down (dead OFF, not just key off). The best way to ensure this unless you are an engineer on the system and have other indications is, turn EVERYTHING in the car off. Not even a dome light should be left on. Exit the vehicle. Lock the doors. Leave the vehicle dormant for 10 minutes. ONLY THIS will make it likely that the entire vehicle MOST bus system has "gone to sleep" and all the units will come up and reinitialize fresh. I'd say 90% of erratic problems are due to not observing this rule. We see installers plug in a unit and expect the entire system to work flawlessly, immediately. You have to think more along the lines of "Windows", not analog speaker connection.
• Last but not least, optical quality. If there has been a collision, or the optical fibers in were in some other way damaged or compromised, the entire system can act erratically. And it may be intermittent. So if you are experiencing problems, bypass the aftermarket unit (all of the well-known suppliers provide fiber-optic "bypass" loops) and be fundamentally certain that the baseline vehicle system is operating correctly and consistently before pointing the finger at a specific component.

I'm sure I am forgetting some other big point and someone may blast me (please do! this is how we all get better) but hopefully this gives you an intro on our perspective on the market, the customer experiences and history here. We are certainly looking forward to an exciting new world of opportunities, bringing not only the basic integration solutions to these vehicles but new and innovative entries, as well.

Like our competitors, we will try to always monitor these forums for concerns but if you want to reach us more immediately: sales@mobridge-usa.com, or for existing customers: support@mobridge-usa.com

Thanks and Best Regards,

Scott D. Nelson
President
mObridge, Inc

P.S. Those customers outside the U.S., you will see announcements and sales within the next 4-8 months. The general pattern of compliance is: Apple, U.S. FCC, and MOST Coop, then others like Canada DOC, CE, E-Tick, TUV, etc. It is an arduous process, but we are committed to ensuring the products meet the expectations, laws and regulations of every market in which they are sold.

 

Hi Scott. Thanks for the post. And welcome to 6speed.

I'll be replacing my NAVTV unit with your mObridge in December (if my installer can get product).

Thanks!