New M3 experience?
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M3 has too much bling going on with the body style. That bubble on the hood looks ridiculous.
Aluminum block engine makes me nervous. Lighter than the last engine, but if it is lighter why does the car weigh more? My Volvo wagon weighs 3788 pounds. M3 weighs only a few pounds less. Too heavy by comparison to a 997.
I also perceive there to be a disconnect in the quality of the Porsche dealer vs the BMW dealer for sales, service and parts. This is a broad statement but it is a subjective sense I have based on my own experience.
Maybe it is faster by some measure, on both paper and youtube, but faster isn't everything.
Aluminum block engine makes me nervous. Lighter than the last engine, but if it is lighter why does the car weigh more? My Volvo wagon weighs 3788 pounds. M3 weighs only a few pounds less. Too heavy by comparison to a 997.
I also perceive there to be a disconnect in the quality of the Porsche dealer vs the BMW dealer for sales, service and parts. This is a broad statement but it is a subjective sense I have based on my own experience.
Maybe it is faster by some measure, on both paper and youtube, but faster isn't everything.
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I would also add comparing the track times of a GT3 to the M3 is a really pushing it. It's bad enough when comparing it to a 997S with a $36,000.00 price difference but to a GT3 which is $50,000.00 more and runs on Pilot Sport Cups right from the factory that's just not a fair comp at all. I'd like to see what kind of M3 BMW could produce if the M3 listed for $90k+ vs. $56K, I could only imagine what kind of performance it would have and what it would do to the competition.
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The BMW NA website lists the coupe at 3704 lbs, that's without options. She's not much of a looker and a fattie.
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My new '08 M3 Coupe finished production on Friday and is on its way to a port in Germany. It has the M-DCT 7-speed dual clutch manual. I should have it in 5-6 weeks, so I can give a full report then. I also have an '07 997S which I am keeping. Here are my thoughts on this discussion.
- If I had to have just one car, it would be the M3 - can't fit my road bike in the trunk of the 997.
- Weight? It is about 3,580lbs. The figures quoted by BMW are euro spec numbers that include estimated amounts for a passenger and luggage. It is only about 150lbs heavier than the E46 M3.
- Speed? The M-DCT should shave a couple of tenths of the 0-60 and quarter mile times. I'm guessing it will have very similar times to the 997S.
- Looks? To each his own, but the consensus is that it looks far better in person than in pictures. I think it also makes the E46 M3 look dated (and I have owned an E46 M3).
- Cost? With the options most people will select, the coupe is going to be about $68,000-$70,000, including gas guzzler tax.
- Availability? There a numerous cars (6 speeds) around the country that can be bought at sticker today. Just check the major M3 boards.
- Depreciation. Hard to tell, but I think it is safe to say it will not hold its value like the E46 did. I just sold my 6 1/2 year old E46 M3 for 47% of its sticker price.
- If I had to have just one car, it would be the M3 - can't fit my road bike in the trunk of the 997.
- Weight? It is about 3,580lbs. The figures quoted by BMW are euro spec numbers that include estimated amounts for a passenger and luggage. It is only about 150lbs heavier than the E46 M3.
- Speed? The M-DCT should shave a couple of tenths of the 0-60 and quarter mile times. I'm guessing it will have very similar times to the 997S.
- Looks? To each his own, but the consensus is that it looks far better in person than in pictures. I think it also makes the E46 M3 look dated (and I have owned an E46 M3).
- Cost? With the options most people will select, the coupe is going to be about $68,000-$70,000, including gas guzzler tax.
- Availability? There a numerous cars (6 speeds) around the country that can be bought at sticker today. Just check the major M3 boards.
- Depreciation. Hard to tell, but I think it is safe to say it will not hold its value like the E46 did. I just sold my 6 1/2 year old E46 M3 for 47% of its sticker price.
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Here's one listed at $97,000....
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d.php?t=121571
!
All that being said, the times are impressive. But they only match (or slightly beat depending on the comparisons) our 4 year old (in design) 997S. Seems more like a lateral move for a BMW, which many wouldn't make, given that they already own the Porsche.
Now if the BMW had the GTR's performance figures and had no ridiculous mark-up... that would be a different story.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d.php?t=121571
!All that being said, the times are impressive. But they only match (or slightly beat depending on the comparisons) our 4 year old (in design) 997S. Seems more like a lateral move for a BMW, which many wouldn't make, given that they already own the Porsche.
Now if the BMW had the GTR's performance figures and had no ridiculous mark-up... that would be a different story.
Those market adjustments will end real quickly in this economy, not to mention there is a boat load of dealers who will sell for MSRP.
Dave
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Exactly... remove the carbon fiber roof and add a couple of heated seats and your over 3800...
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Car and Driver actually weighted the car and in came in at 3571lbs, here's the PDF.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...ts_vehicle.pdf
This car had nav as well, hmm maybe you can shave off another 20lbs without Nav and iDrive.
Dave
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...ts_vehicle.pdf
This car had nav as well, hmm maybe you can shave off another 20lbs without Nav and iDrive.
Dave
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I am a current E46 M3 owner who has been debating on getting either an E92 M3 or a 997S. Went to go look at both cars this past Sunday and I honestly was not impressed by the new M3 as much as I thought I would be. If it were not for the hood bulge and lower front fascia I would say it' looks just like any other non-M E92 on the road. I prefer the looks of the 997 by a long shot, but it is hard to pass up the performance and practicality of the M. I am still waffling, but leaning towards the 997S.
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Depending on options I am not seeing a 50K difference especially with the M3 being launched at around 70K MSRP.
MSRP to MSRP a moderately equipped 997S will run 90 . That's 20K difference . Throw in discounts or markups and the gap narrows . In fact we could play the high low comparison too where a new M3 costs 97K and a used 997S costs 65K.
Even better for the 1/4 mi obsessed . How about a 996tt weekend car and lease a 135 (daily) and still have change in the pocket?
MSRP to MSRP a moderately equipped 997S will run 90 . That's 20K difference . Throw in discounts or markups and the gap narrows . In fact we could play the high low comparison too where a new M3 costs 97K and a used 997S costs 65K.
Even better for the 1/4 mi obsessed . How about a 996tt weekend car and lease a 135 (daily) and still have change in the pocket?
Last edited by gravedgr; Mar 11, 2008 at 11:18 AM.
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FWIW, I sold my '02 M3 (aftermarket wheels only) after 18 months for 100% of sticker (my only loss was wheels, tax, and some interest).
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I said an "M3" for $90k
If BMW sold an M3 for an MSRP of $90k it would be a monster for sure and outperform both a 997S and the M6.
Last edited by 500; Mar 11, 2008 at 11:53 AM.
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That's a good point but the Cayman is a pure two seater where the M3 is not nor is the 997. I also think there is a lot more to comps than just track times which are more important to everday life with the car.
Last edited by 500; Mar 11, 2008 at 11:55 AM.
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The new M3 has a few things that are truly in its favor; the dual clutch gearbox and for only $2700, a 414hp V8 with an 8250 rpm redline 
and a base price of $56,500 vs the Carrera S's base price (for 08) of $83,000.00. The 997S is an incredible car (I love mine) but it is really worth $36,500.00 more than the new M? Gotta see one in the flesh and drive it, but I'm beginning to wonder 
... 
and a base price of $56,500 vs the Carrera S's base price (for 08) of $83,000.00. The 997S is an incredible car (I love mine) but it is really worth $36,500.00 more than the new M? Gotta see one in the flesh and drive it, but I'm beginning to wonder ...
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I wonder if the M3 engine is maximized with the stock exhaust / software or if those upgrades will increase bhp substantially as in the 997s... My friend just purchased the e92 but I remember with his e46 the modifications did nothing for performance... only for sound...