After PPI dealer offers more than what was agreed with seller. Advice needed
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From: ri
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hmmmmm not quite sure
just a quick question, who was paying for the initial PPI? If it was you that called, set it up and was paying I would be livid.... it it was him, and the delaer beat your offer not quite sure what there is to be upset about execot getting beat. Again not 100% sure the situation, but if were not paying for the PPI I would think the loyalty of the delaer would be with the person paying for the PPI.... may have missed some details in this thread....
Final update, albeit a disappointing one... After close to a three-month exchange and significant time, effort, and energy invested on my end, the seller decided to go with the dealer offer, which only brought him an extra $300. That's right folks, dealer offered $500 over what was agreed between me and the seller (which was simply contingent on the car passing a clean PPI which it did), and if you count the $200 cost of the PPI I would have reimbursed the seller (which of course the dealer didn't), he decided that the time we spent on this is worth nothing. On a 70K+ car $300 is a mere...0.4% Tells you a lot about the seller, no need to comment further on that...
What I would like to get your thoughts on is whether this whole development warrants me writing a detailed letter to Porsche USA. To recap, the dealer offered $500 above what was agreed with seller AFTER performing the PPI and ONCE told by the seller what our deal entailed. As alleged by the seller, it is the dealer that approached him on this. Keep in mind this is one of only 25 Premier dealers in the country. Surely this unethical behaivior does not warrant them carrying such moniker...
Thoughts?
What I would like to get your thoughts on is whether this whole development warrants me writing a detailed letter to Porsche USA. To recap, the dealer offered $500 above what was agreed with seller AFTER performing the PPI and ONCE told by the seller what our deal entailed. As alleged by the seller, it is the dealer that approached him on this. Keep in mind this is one of only 25 Premier dealers in the country. Surely this unethical behaivior does not warrant them carrying such moniker...
Thoughts?
Formerly 04ImolaZHP
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Dr. Fredinand, welcome to the 6! I cant belive I didnt hear about this story - we need to talk more 
.
I feel your frustration and in your place, I would definitely write a letter to P. NA and the owner/GM.
.I feel your frustration and in your place, I would definitely write a letter to P. NA and the owner/GM.
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just a quick question, who was paying for the initial PPI? If it was you that called, set it up and was paying I would be livid.... it it was him, and the delaer beat your offer not quite sure what there is to be upset about execot getting beat. Again not 100% sure the situation, but if were not paying for the PPI I would think the loyalty of the delaer would be with the person paying for the PPI.... may have missed some details in this thread....
This was my reaction also. Everyone's saying it's "unethical," and I don't see it that way. As I understand it, seller went to the dealer and paid $200 for a PPI and the dealer beat the price. It's opportunistic of the dealer, I agree, but not unethical. The dealer owed the potential buyer no duty -- legal, ethical, whatever, etc. What am I missing?
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Well, generally the way I negotiated the car prices in the past is by asking the owner to get quotes from places like Carmax and the dealers, then I offered to beat these offers by a considerable amoung e.g. 1-5%.
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This was my reaction also. Everyone's saying it's "unethical," and I don't see it that way. As I understand it, seller went to the dealer and paid $200 for a PPI and the dealer beat the price. It's opportunistic of the dealer, I agree, but not unethical. The dealer owed the potential buyer no duty -- legal, ethical, whatever, etc. What am I missing?
Last edited by PeterK; May 1, 2008 at 07:57 AM.
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Not to say that it doesn't happen but I've never heard of a seller paying for a PPI. Almost always, the potential buyer absorbs the cost of the PPI just as he/she would absorb the cost of Carfax or any other due diligence.
If that is the case here, than the dealer was 100% unethical. The dealer was compensated for specific work. They would not have been party to this transaction absent that work. And for them to use that information to undercut their customer (the potential buyer who paid for the PPI) is simply wrong.
If, by chance, the seller paid for the PPI then my position changes.
If that is the case here, than the dealer was 100% unethical. The dealer was compensated for specific work. They would not have been party to this transaction absent that work. And for them to use that information to undercut their customer (the potential buyer who paid for the PPI) is simply wrong.
If, by chance, the seller paid for the PPI then my position changes.
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I don't think writing Porsche will accomplish anything. I understand the disappointment, and on hindsight the car was likely worth the extra $300 or more, but there are other cars out there and you will find one.
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This was my reaction also. Everyone's saying it's "unethical," and I don't see it that way. As I understand it, seller went to the dealer and paid $200 for a PPI and the dealer beat the price. It's opportunistic of the dealer, I agree, but not unethical. The dealer owed the potential buyer no duty -- legal, ethical, whatever, etc. What am I missing?
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The seller took the car in and paid for the PPI upfront. At that point, barring contractual obligation ( prove it w/o money changing hands or sigs) I (as seller) would have either adjusted my asking price to market value or sold it to the dealer. That seems to be what happened. Wheres the beef? Gerry
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Depends upon whether there was a contract between the buyer and seller prior to the PPI. If all the material terms were agreed upon, which it sounds like they were (I'll pay you $x for the car on y date, subject to the PPI coming back clean), then the seller breached the contract by selling to the dealer. If the dealer was aware of the contract, then there is potential tortious interference on its part. Practically, its not worth pursuing, but it sounds like both the seller and dealership were in the wrong.
Your last sentence nails it as a practical matter.
I thought about your argument before I posted. I don't think you have a contract between buyer and seller. The buyer's offer is conditional. The seller had no obligation to get a PPI. (Where's the consideration for that?) You could see any number of issues coming up from the PPI that would allow either party to back out, have further negotiations, etc.
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The seller took the car in and paid for the PPI upfront. At that point, barring contractual obligation ( prove it w/o money changing hands or sigs) I (as seller) would have either adjusted my asking price to market value or sold it to the dealer. That seems to be what happened. Wheres the beef? Gerry
Agree re the contract --- I am not confident there was any meeting of the minds here. If there is any evidence of a contract here, then by all means he can show it Porsche (fat lot of good it will do). I'd bet the seller will say that he took it for a PPI, and then he was planning on coming back to finalize the transaction with the buyer, but that he never promised to sell the car to anyone.
BTW, nothing I have written is legal advice to anyone of course.
Regardless, it must have been a steal of a price if a dealer was willing to pay roughly the same amount. This dude will be able to get a good deal somewhere else.
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