Just to let you all know, the c2s pdk is substantially faster than the new m3. Had raced 1 from a 40 km roll on starting in gear 1 to 220-230kms. Had a friend with me and so did the m3. I was about a good 4 cars infront of him at the end.

 

'07 C2S 'vert vs. '08 M3 'vert: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRAOjA22WM[/media]

Summary: even.

No doubt 997.2 w/PDK is a bit faster w/HP+ and PDK.

Someone in this thread mentioned changes to '09 M3 - are they cosmetic only? I've heard some software problems with DCT also.

 

Surprised I missed this.

The car in question is mine and if anyone with a 997.2 thinks they are close in performance, I'm not hard to find.

There is a 997S coming out to the track to the next event, it will be hard pressed to do mid 12's let alone low 12's. The last guy to run his 997S at Famoso did something like a high 12 @ 110. It is easy to type a 997.2 with exhaust will match the times, but it won't.

My friends 996 GT3 can't keep up from a roll, and that car is lighter and faster than the facelift 997S. It will take nothing less than a supercharged 997S to match my times which are only going to get faster as I add a few more things. The real world straightline gap (not magazine times) vs. a DCT is larger than the 997 people would like to convince themselves of. Not that people should be buying the 997's for straightline speed.

I for one opted for the M3 instead of the 997S.2 , the M3 simply has a better motor and more room for tuning. It is also a far more discrete and usable everyday package. I would have had to make the jump to the turbo to be satisfied, more money, and there is no DCT on the turbo yet. The GT3 would have been more my style as it is NA but hardly any room to squeeze out of it and no DCT either yet. After spending time with this trans, I don't want anything else. I'm sure I'll get into a 911 turbo once it gets the DCT and I'll be bored by that time and ready for something else. For now, I'm in love with the M3.

 

You do realize the M3 vert weight 4150 pounds don't you? 4200 with DCT. The M3 coupe is significantly faster, 600 pounds less weight has that effect.

No doubt the M3 coupe with DCT is a bit faster than the 997.2 with PDK.

 

I think yes a 997 S vs. an M3 coupe would favor the M3, but the 997.2 S would in all likelihood be faster given it has more bhp then the 997 S. Look at the power to weight ratio, the 997.2 S PDK is 8.36 lbs/hp and the M3 is 8.94 lbs/hp. Go back to the 997 S and you get 8.82 lbs/hp, which while still better then the M3, the DCT vs Manual would favor the M3. Very close cars, more then likely it'll be a drivers race in any of them.

 

http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_t...&area=features

fast forward to 14mins and you will see the 997.2 PDK pull off a 12.6

 

Curio; Somebody a few posts above says you are wrong and he has performed the simple test. After we all finish putting our mouths where our money is there is one truth here: you ran 115 in the 1/4. Are you really happy with that? I'm thinking you can do better. The last time I saw a thread like this on GT3 board it ended with some m6 owner going "ballistic" literally. I'm in NY which is just as easy to find as California. From a roll you might pull me some. You might not. Don't care that much. Nice trolling Dave. Musta been a slow day ;-) I'm out of here. Ne 1 who wants to pm me feel free, Gerry

 

Supercharged 997's (997S or base 997) run mid 11's (~11.6) and trap 123 mph (997) and 125 mph (997S) on street tires. With drag radials they would prob be 11.0-11.2, which is significantly faster in et, plus another 10 mph of trap speed which is HUGE. so, no offense, but youre not even close to a SC'd 911 in time and esp in trap speed. sc'd 997 will pull a c6 z06.
stock for stock, a 997S with drag radials will be right there, and the 997.2 with drag radials and PDK will prob hit high 11s. R&T did run a 12.3@114.8 in one test with a BONE STOCK 997S on PS2s.

 

Road and track tested the 997S in 3/2005 and listed..

0-60 3.9
0-100 9.6
1/4M 12.3@114.8

Pretty damn quick for a stock 911.

 

I agree with you.

 

Magazine times and strip times are different things.

 

I saw the numbers on EVO's supercharged car. Right now that car is faster but we are comparing modded to modded. I am not finished, but I am going for the 11's NA.

SC'd 911 will pull a Z06? The Z06 is lighter and putting out more RWHP, doesn't add up. The 997S 1/4 mile time listed is corrected and estimated based on the 997 that went 11.8, we never actually got a slip for a supercharged 997S.

The 997S with drag radials will not be right there. There was a guy in the GT3 forum that ran high 11's and had to significantly lighten his car to get there. That motor puts out far more RWHP than the 997.2 with PDK as well. I guess we will see

That road and track time has no bearing on the drag strip, no one has ever been able to replicate it. We have all seen the dyno numbers.

 

Thats true, no one has been able to replicate it...i think its a bit of an anomaly, just like the m3 time where it ran 12.5 is an anomaly. it happens in mag tests all the time where theres one test so much faster than the norm.
the 997S SC'd is seriously fast-theres no denying that. they pull like crazy-ive driven one before, 997S SC'd which also had a full exhaust on it.
I think with a good driver and drags a 997S would be in the low 12 range (12.3 or so). a 997.2 with PDK (using LC) and drags would def be ~12.0 if not high 11s-but well have to see when/if that happens.
there is at least one guy on here with a 997 GT3 who ran 11.9@120 bone stock. those cars arent dragsters by any mean but they can snap some very quick ets and 120 trap is not slow by any means. its still 5 mph great than your 115 and only .2 seconds faster with a 6mt.
i believe on the VF site there is an actualy slip of a base 997 SC'd that ran 11.85@120+ on street tires. here is it: http://www.vf-engineering.com/
you just need to go to the 997 911 section and scroll down. its the actual time slip. with drag radials, i would expect that car to run ~11.1-11.3
anyway-theyre all fast cars, i dont think were jaded to the point where a high 11 second car or low 12 second car is slow.

 

It wasn't my choice to make the M3 weigh so much - I simply found a video of the two cars in question BOTH convertibles, and stated that they ran about evenly. I further stated that CLEARLY a 997.2S would be faster than the 997 in the video.

Also, while I really like the M3 E90/92/93, and I think there is a TON of reasons to recommend it, I don't agree that it can #1 stay with a 997.2 C2S in a straight line, nor that it even matters since it likely doesn't have the brakes or handling to stay with it anywhere else, at least not for long. Not a knock - it's too heavy/tall to compete in that comparison. It's still a great small car with a fabulous engine - that engine is only 0.2 L larger than the C2S, yet has 40 more HP and a 1000rpm higher redline.

One more thing: the M3 'vert weighs 4145 (can you BELIEVE that? Jeesh, what does an X5 or a Cayenne weigh?), while the coupe weighs 3704, or 441 lb difference, not 600 - according to BMWUSA.com.

If the $25k price difference didn't matter to me, and I didn't think I'd ever have cause to get anything other than small inanimate object or possibly a small child in the back, then I'd certainly choose the C2S; if those assumptions did affect my decision, then the M3 is much more competitive if not the outright ideal choice.

Anyway, I found a couple more videos:

E92 M3 vs 996 GT3: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXUDb1X6dk[/media]

E92 M3 vs 997 C2S: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU_Is24g[/media]

 

I have seen some M3's weigh in at 3515lbs, in fact Car and Driver weighed thier test vehicle in at 3555lbs.

X5's weigh in at around 4800lbs or so.

Dave