OT..E92 M3 runs 12.1 @115mph
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The M3 is fast . Just because a car is fast , handles well, and fits people and groceries means that it's a thrill to drive .
It is fun at first .
I'm bored now .
I had my 997tt longer .
Both have equal miles .
I am not bored with the Porsche. In fact each day i have it I love it even more.
To each his own.
It is fun at first .
I'm bored now .
I had my 997tt longer .
Both have equal miles .
I am not bored with the Porsche. In fact each day i have it I love it even more.
To each his own.
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It wasn't my choice to make the M3 weigh so much - I simply found a video of the two cars in question BOTH convertibles, and stated that they ran about evenly. I further stated that CLEARLY a 997.2S would be faster than the 997 in the video.
Also, while I really like the M3 E90/92/93, and I think there is a TON of reasons to recommend it, I don't agree that it can #1 stay with a 997.2 C2S in a straight line, nor that it even matters since it likely doesn't have the brakes or handling to stay with it anywhere else, at least not for long. Not a knock - it's too heavy/tall to compete in that comparison. It's still a great small car with a fabulous engine - that engine is only 0.2 L larger than the C2S, yet has 40 more HP and a 1000rpm higher redline.
One more thing: the M3 'vert weighs 4145 (can you BELIEVE that? Jeesh, what does an X5 or a Cayenne weigh?), while the coupe weighs 3704, or 441 lb difference, not 600 - according to BMWUSA.com.
If the $25k price difference didn't matter to me, and I didn't think I'd ever have cause to get anything other than small inanimate object or possibly a small child in the back, then I'd certainly choose the C2S; if those assumptions did affect my decision, then the M3 is much more competitive if not the outright ideal choice.
Anyway, I found a couple more videos:
E92 M3 vs 996 GT3: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXUDb1X6dk[/media]
E92 M3 vs 997 C2S: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU_Is24g[/media]
Also, while I really like the M3 E90/92/93, and I think there is a TON of reasons to recommend it, I don't agree that it can #1 stay with a 997.2 C2S in a straight line, nor that it even matters since it likely doesn't have the brakes or handling to stay with it anywhere else, at least not for long. Not a knock - it's too heavy/tall to compete in that comparison. It's still a great small car with a fabulous engine - that engine is only 0.2 L larger than the C2S, yet has 40 more HP and a 1000rpm higher redline.
One more thing: the M3 'vert weighs 4145 (can you BELIEVE that? Jeesh, what does an X5 or a Cayenne weigh?), while the coupe weighs 3704, or 441 lb difference, not 600 - according to BMWUSA.com.
If the $25k price difference didn't matter to me, and I didn't think I'd ever have cause to get anything other than small inanimate object or possibly a small child in the back, then I'd certainly choose the C2S; if those assumptions did affect my decision, then the M3 is much more competitive if not the outright ideal choice.
Anyway, I found a couple more videos:
E92 M3 vs 996 GT3: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXUDb1X6dk[/media]
E92 M3 vs 997 C2S: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU_Is24g[/media]
The M3 won't just stay with the 997.2 in a straight line, the higher the speeds go the further the advantage for the M3.
I think it is great that BMW gives people a convertible hard top option. Porsche does not, I suppose that is a benefit for weight although a bit behind the times.
25k difference? Well, I guess if we go by sticker with a bit of options on the 997S. Considering the way things are right now, who is paying sticker? At that level, it doesn't become a matter of money as a 100 dollar payment here or here does not become the deciding factor. What the person wants is the deciding factor. Maybe some people are leasing, so the payment definitely can be a factor. For those buying, I think the person chooses what they truly want.
The weight I was going by for the difference is what peple who own the car on M3post actually weighed it as. So, the majority were in the 35xx range so if you take that, you see where I get the 600 figure.
Last edited by CURI0; Dec 20, 2008 at 01:01 AM.
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Thats true, no one has been able to replicate it...i think its a bit of an anomaly, just like the m3 time where it ran 12.5 is an anomaly. it happens in mag tests all the time where theres one test so much faster than the norm.
the 997S SC'd is seriously fast-theres no denying that. they pull like crazy-ive driven one before, 997S SC'd which also had a full exhaust on it.
I think with a good driver and drags a 997S would be in the low 12 range (12.3 or so). a 997.2 with PDK (using LC) and drags would def be ~12.0 if not high 11s-but well have to see when/if that happens.
there is at least one guy on here with a 997 GT3 who ran 11.9@120 bone stock. those cars arent dragsters by any mean but they can snap some very quick ets and 120 trap is not slow by any means. its still 5 mph great than your 115 and only .2 seconds faster with a 6mt.
i believe on the VF site there is an actualy slip of a base 997 SC'd that ran 11.85@120+ on street tires. here is it: http://www.vf-engineering.com/
you just need to go to the 997 911 section and scroll down. its the actual time slip. with drag radials, i would expect that car to run ~11.1-11.3
anyway-theyre all fast cars, i dont think were jaded to the point where a high 11 second car or low 12 second car is slow.
the 997S SC'd is seriously fast-theres no denying that. they pull like crazy-ive driven one before, 997S SC'd which also had a full exhaust on it.
I think with a good driver and drags a 997S would be in the low 12 range (12.3 or so). a 997.2 with PDK (using LC) and drags would def be ~12.0 if not high 11s-but well have to see when/if that happens.
there is at least one guy on here with a 997 GT3 who ran 11.9@120 bone stock. those cars arent dragsters by any mean but they can snap some very quick ets and 120 trap is not slow by any means. its still 5 mph great than your 115 and only .2 seconds faster with a 6mt.
i believe on the VF site there is an actualy slip of a base 997 SC'd that ran 11.85@120+ on street tires. here is it: http://www.vf-engineering.com/
you just need to go to the 997 911 section and scroll down. its the actual time slip. with drag radials, i would expect that car to run ~11.1-11.3
anyway-theyre all fast cars, i dont think were jaded to the point where a high 11 second car or low 12 second car is slow.
I never saw the slip for the stock 997 GT3 running 11.9@120. Would you be able to link me please? Surprised I missed that.
Anyway, it is close, except when you supercharge the M3, then you need to bring a modded turbo to the table
Last edited by CURI0; Dec 20, 2008 at 01:06 AM.
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I honestly don't you think if I put you in a 997S you would beat myself in my M3 around a road course. I don't think you realize just how high the levels are on these cars to begin with. You need to be a professional to exact a significant advantage with either. I think the M3 is easier to drive and extract the limits from.
The M3 won't just stay with the 997.2 in a straight line, the higher the speeds go the further the advantage for the M3.
I think it is great that BMW gives people a convertible hard top option. Porsche does not, I suppose that is a benefit for weight although a bit behind the times.
25k difference? Well, I guess if we go by sticker with a bit of options on the 997S. Considering the way things are right now, who is paying sticker? At that level, it doesn't become a matter of money as a 100 dollar payment here or here does not become the deciding factor. What the person wants is the deciding factor. Maybe some people are leasing, so the payment definitely can be a factor. For those buying, I think the person chooses what they truly want.
The weight I was going by for the difference is what peple who own the car on M3post actually weighed it as. So, the majority were in the 35xx range so if you take that, you see where I get the 600 figure.
The M3 won't just stay with the 997.2 in a straight line, the higher the speeds go the further the advantage for the M3.
I think it is great that BMW gives people a convertible hard top option. Porsche does not, I suppose that is a benefit for weight although a bit behind the times.
25k difference? Well, I guess if we go by sticker with a bit of options on the 997S. Considering the way things are right now, who is paying sticker? At that level, it doesn't become a matter of money as a 100 dollar payment here or here does not become the deciding factor. What the person wants is the deciding factor. Maybe some people are leasing, so the payment definitely can be a factor. For those buying, I think the person chooses what they truly want.
The weight I was going by for the difference is what peple who own the car on M3post actually weighed it as. So, the majority were in the 35xx range so if you take that, you see where I get the 600 figure.
As for "your" M3, I'm not sure what you've done to it, but a stock M3 isn't going to run away from a 997.2 S. Close in a straight line one way or the other, fading on a road course. No slam - I love the M3 - it's a great car. It needs a diet, BAD though. Most enthusiast BMW owners would say the same about all E90/92/93s.
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Road and track tested the 997S in 3/2005 and listed..
0-60 3.9
0-100 9.6
1/4M 12.3@114.8
Pretty damn quick for a stock 911.
0-60 3.9
0-100 9.6
1/4M 12.3@114.8
Pretty damn quick for a stock 911.
M3's are stupid fast, i posted on an earlier thread how at our local track I'd get way more drive onto the straight and an M3 that was tailing me would eat up all my gains in the corner so easily just with power! Their fast, and especially over 60mph.. I still like the 997S better but give props to where props are due..
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I think I remember that test and I'm pretty sure that was an X-51 car, if I'm thinking of the right test they mentioned they were surprised how fast it was and that is was substantially quicker than the last 997S they just had tested earlier. In any case I'm pretty sure 12.3 is not a common real world number for a 997S..
M3's are stupid fast, i posted on an earlier thread how at our local track I'd get way more drive onto the straight and an M3 that was tailing me would eat up all my gains in the corner so easily just with power! Their fast, and especially over 60mph.. I still like the 997S better but give props to where props are due..
M3's are stupid fast, i posted on an earlier thread how at our local track I'd get way more drive onto the straight and an M3 that was tailing me would eat up all my gains in the corner so easily just with power! Their fast, and especially over 60mph.. I still like the 997S better but give props to where props are due..
Dave
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Straight line? No. The M3 has more power to the wheels, the longer it goes, the more it favors the M3.
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Did I just accidentally log in to a Pontiac GTO forum? A script from 'Pinks'? When I intended to read about P-cars, I assumed we were talking Porsches'.
Reading about a Porsche with drag slicks just boggles the mind. Who buys a P-car to run the 1/4 mile?? Why would ya'?
Reading about a Porsche with drag slicks just boggles the mind. Who buys a P-car to run the 1/4 mile?? Why would ya'?
Thats true, no one has been able to replicate it...i think its a bit of an anomaly, just like the m3 time where it ran 12.5 is an anomaly. it happens in mag tests all the time where theres one test so much faster than the norm.
the 997S SC'd is seriously fast-theres no denying that. they pull like crazy-ive driven one before, 997S SC'd which also had a full exhaust on it.
I think with a good driver and drags a 997S would be in the low 12 range (12.3 or so). a 997.2 with PDK (using LC) and drags would def be ~12.0 if not high 11s-but well have to see when/if that happens.
there is at least one guy on here with a 997 GT3 who ran 11.9@120 bone stock. those cars arent dragsters by any mean but they can snap some very quick ets and 120 trap is not slow by any means. its still 5 mph great than your 115 and only .2 seconds faster with a 6mt.
i believe on the VF site there is an actualy slip of a base 997 SC'd that ran 11.85@120+ on street tires. here is it: http://www.vf-engineering.com/
you just need to go to the 997 911 section and scroll down. its the actual time slip. with drag radials, i would expect that car to run ~11.1-11.3
anyway-theyre all fast cars, i dont think were jaded to the point where a high 11 second car or low 12 second car is slow.
the 997S SC'd is seriously fast-theres no denying that. they pull like crazy-ive driven one before, 997S SC'd which also had a full exhaust on it.
I think with a good driver and drags a 997S would be in the low 12 range (12.3 or so). a 997.2 with PDK (using LC) and drags would def be ~12.0 if not high 11s-but well have to see when/if that happens.
there is at least one guy on here with a 997 GT3 who ran 11.9@120 bone stock. those cars arent dragsters by any mean but they can snap some very quick ets and 120 trap is not slow by any means. its still 5 mph great than your 115 and only .2 seconds faster with a 6mt.
i believe on the VF site there is an actualy slip of a base 997 SC'd that ran 11.85@120+ on street tires. here is it: http://www.vf-engineering.com/
you just need to go to the 997 911 section and scroll down. its the actual time slip. with drag radials, i would expect that car to run ~11.1-11.3
anyway-theyre all fast cars, i dont think were jaded to the point where a high 11 second car or low 12 second car is slow.
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Guys like I mentioned earlier, I raced a stock m3 with my c2s pdk from 40kms. Both starting from gear 1 up to around 230-240ish kms. I had a friend with me and so did the m3. At the end of the race I was at LEAST a good 3 cars ahead and 4 cars is what it looked. No joke. We even stopped after to have a quick chat and the guy could not believe that I had a carrera s. Honestly I was not expecting to beat the m3 by quite a margin. Note my car has the cat delete option, do not know how much of a difference this will make but my car feels a bit faster than the demo c2s I drove thta had the extra cats. Stock for stock a c2s pdk is faster than an m3 on the straights.
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Guys like I mentioned earlier, I raced a stock m3 with my c2s pdk from 40kms. Both starting from gear 1 up to around 230-240ish kms. I had a friend with me and so did the m3. At the end of the race I was at LEAST a good 3 cars ahead and 4 cars is what it looked. No joke. We even stopped after to have a quick chat and the guy could not believe that I had a carrera s. Honestly I was not expecting to beat the m3 by quite a margin. Note my car has the cat delete option, do not know how much of a difference this will make but my car feels a bit faster than the demo c2s I drove thta had the extra cats. Stock for stock a c2s pdk is faster than an m3 on the straights.
Cheers, Gerry
Last edited by Gpjli; Dec 21, 2008 at 09:01 PM.
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I am sure that is the way it happened. Best to let it go. The flaming just goes on and on. It is possible, you realize, that not all 997's will "beat" all m3's; and visa versa. Once you start talking about modded cars it is even less clear. And even less important. What the owners of other make vehicles, especially BMW's, seem to ignore is that THIS IS A PORSCHE BOARD. Most here would own M3's if we were so inclined. It is all good. My priority is to be the best driver I can be. There will always be a faster car out there. Right now the problem is not that there may be an m3 lurking outside my house. It is the 6 inches of snow and the sub freezing temperatures in NY Cheers, Gerry
Cheers, Gerry1. The driver makes more difference than the difference in these cars, especially where it "counts" - something other than a flat straight line.
2. 6" of snow - now THAT's an exciting top speed run!
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Youd be suprised how many guys with 996TT's run 1/4 miles times. theres a HUGE thread on it in the 911 turbo section.
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Dave
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just came across a new Car & Driver test where the new m3 DCT was 1.1 seconds a lap quicker around Laguna Seca than the 997.2.... any way you look at it, that is pretty impressive.
good thing is it will hopefully make Porsche up the ante on future iterations of the 911. Hopefully 400hp base models?
good thing is it will hopefully make Porsche up the ante on future iterations of the 911. Hopefully 400hp base models?