Hi all,

Just joined the forum. Have lurked for a bit and was trying to find a good Porsche forum... and this is it! My question is regarding CPO vehicles and the advantages they offer. In particular, my local dealer has a vehicle that's an 997 C2S with around 40k miles. Yeah, I know it's a bit high but nice color and has a nice set of options including full leather interior. Having warranty until 2011 is also advantageous. It's coming off lease and has pretty much everything I'm looking for. Have driven the 997.2 and absolutely loved it but currently own a 2005 e46 ZCP M3 that I am going to hold onto as a daily driver. Have 2 kids under 5 and and another coming in March. Would rather get a 997s now rather than wait for the next generation. Would rather use the I would pay in depreciation on a new car to fund 529s. Wife has given me the green light to go for the 911. I know these cars are probably going wholesale in the mid 40s. How much above wholesale do you guys think a dealer will accept in the current economy. Have always wanted to add a 911 to the stable and I think with the current state of the economy, that this may be the time to do it. Having bought my M3 brand new and having had many partners who have bought 911s, Mercs, Maseratis, etc. and watched a precipitious decline in value makes me think CPO is the way to go. Any thoughts? Sorry if this isn't the correct forum. Thanks.

V

 

My 997 was a CPO car and the next P-car I get will be CPO. To some it is not worth the extra $3-4k if adds to the price. But I like the CPO warranty. Cars CPO'd after 8/08 enjoy a much better warranty also.

 

You have a very tough decision . First off CPO is definitely the way to go on an 05 with 40K miles . Personally I would want to pay in the upper 50's to have that same 05 car CPO with much less miles because when it crosses 50K the car faces a depreciation loss . The CPO will cushion that loss but it won't prevent it .

You will not get into the 40's . I'm guessing low 50's .

Welcome to 6speed .

 

Thanks for the advice. The CPO definitely adds to the comfort factor. I sure wish the mileage on the car was lower. I will take another look and decide on whether to pull the trigger. I think the other issue which has me hesitating a bit is I'm pretty sure we are going to see dealers flooded with cars coming off lease. Things are very different now versus early 2006. A lot of people may not be buying these cars outright which should mean ample supply. What's killing me is that the car is the perfect color combo and pretty much every option I was looking for. Depreciation is a fact of life. After having spent close to 70k on a fully loaded M3 ZCP with extended warranties and maintenance I wouldn't mind seeing someone else take the depreciation hit!

 

I sent you a PM . I hope my suggestions help . Good luck .

 

I also bought a used CPO for the additional warranty, and consider it money well spent - if nothing else than for peace of mind and financial security.

I don't think there will be a "flood" of cars as you are thinking - granted with tougher times there is more depreciation happening now and many great deals to be had - but also when you are buying a car at that price or higher - there is not that much room left for it to drop - maybe a little more room than usual, but I also see that a lot of people who can afford cars at that level are not hurting as much from this economy to need to "dump" their car, but more likely hold them until they feel more inclined to replace them.

Also - As slow as Porsche sales have become - they are far from being in a desperate position as brands like GM to clear out inventory.

So, I think you can get a great deal on a CPO right now - an essential feature in my mind for a car with 40k or more. I just don't think you are going to see any fire sales from Porsche dealers unless things get much worse.

 

CPO adds $2k to the cost of any Porsche dealer car. They do the inspections, replace anything that needs it, and extend the warranty 2 years / 50k. Fantastic program if you ask me - piece of mind for 2 extra years.

What most people don't bother to do, which amazes me, is have the DME values printed out. I just bought a 2005 CPO Boxster S for my wife and kids to enjoy. You'd be amazed at how many of these engines have been abused. One had 10s of thousands of Range 1 over-revs all the way up to range 6. That poor thing could have been winded up to 12k for all one knows because they stop measuring at range 6. The one I ended up buying had a few hundred range 1 in a 25k mile lifespan. That's fine as that just means the rev-limiter kicked in a few times. No missed shifts, no pattern of engine abuse.

So... Yes, get a CPO, but make sure you get the DME printout and check the Range 1-6 values.

 

Thanks guys. Phenomenal advice. I will definitely check into things further. I guess my ultimate question is how bad is the mileage and how much of a depreciation hit do you expect once you're over 50k. If I do buy a car with that sort of mileage (and only if it is well taken care of), I would probably only put in the neighborhood of 4-5 k per year on it as I would daily drive my M3. Half the time I drive about 40 miles total round trip to work. The other half of the time it's 1.5 miles so. This car may not hit 50K for another 2 or 2 1/2 years. I figure by then it will be average mileage for it's age and will have typical wear and tear. If I love the car, I can see myself keeping it for 5-6 years. I'm not super concerned about the depreciation hit... though I do not want to have the car's value drop into the high 20s or low 30s if I did cross over 50 in one year. My 2005 M3 was delivered late July 05 and I am just about to hit 25k. Love the M3 but have always wanted a P-car. Just have to wait for the right one to come along (either new or CPO). Thanks again.

 

Thanks again for all the advice. I am going in to check out the car tomorrow. A coworker of mine saw it last week when he was getting his Cayman S serviced and though it looked brand new. Will ask for a DME printout. Not to sound naive but would it be a fair assumption that a dealer would not CPO a car which had potential abuse on a DME printout? One of the CA's I spoke with mentioned that this car was a lease return they decided to keep as it was in such nice shape. They claim that the car was also serviced at that dealer. I know some CPOs will be bought at a Porsche auction. The CA's stated they would give me a service history. I guess if they don't give me the DME printout I'll just have to keep looking. I have an auto detail guy who has a good eye for things and I'm going to have him check out the car for me as well just to make sure there aren't any signs of damage. I assume they'll hand me a clean carfax but you never know. Dealer also has a much lower mileage C2 from the same year. Lots of features but doesn't have full leather. It was an auction car but has reasonably low mileage and is CPO. It is speed yellow which I know isn't for everyone. They've discounted it to 49,995. It does unfortunately have a front plate installed. Big thumbs down on that. I just think I would miss the extra HP that the S provides.

 

Sorry, but the CPO process does not include analyzing the DME to see if the engine was over-reved. They check brake pad thickness, coolant, etc. A car with over-revs can drive just fine, but I'd want to know if missed shifts were part of the history. Consider this - a year into ownership the engine starts acting up. You bring it in and are told "engine needs to be rebuilt / replaced". They then hand you a copy of the DME and say "sorry, we aren't covering it because the engine has been abused..." They then hand you a bill for $20k.

No dealer will refuse to give you a printout. Of the 6 cars I seriously considered, each of the 6 (5 Porsche dealers, one non-Porsche dealer) all quickly ran and faxed me the report. All had Range 1 instances, several had range 2-3, and two had 4+ with one being terrible. Too bad, it was my favorite from the looks - $65k MSRP, Sport Seats / shifter / steering wheel, etc. From the looks, you'd say it was the most pampered.

As to lease turn in cars, I'd avoid them if you have an option. In other words, if you have 2 cars you like and it's a coin toss, take the non-leased car every time. Why? It's not your car - it's a rental. Do you treat your rental cars the same way you treat ones you own?

Don't worry about front plate - Erik at BumperPlugs will solve that problem...

 

There are tons of excellent deals out there on lower mileage cars. Even if you have to go some distance away, it could be worthwhile. And I would expect there to be lots more good deals in the coming year. Personally, I would focus on finding what you want with lower miles, and get a DME and CPO. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find one in same price range with lower miles, especially as prices continue to drop. It doesn't sound like you're in a big hurry, and patience could pay big dividends right now.

 

CPO is nice, but it's not the only option. I got one hell of a warranty from Warranty Direct for about 2K. Also consider buying your car out of state. I saved about 10K buying my car out of Texas. It came from the biggest Porsche dealer in the state. There are a ton of cars out there. Don't settle, if it's not perfect. Check out E-Bay. Don't forget the car fax and a big +1 on the DME.

 

I bought mine from a Porsche dealer and it was CPO.....it is a nice piece of mind

 

Engine over rev is a good point to inspect . Keep in mind that there are certain levels and some are normal while others could pose an engine issue .

Ok I found it - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-over-rev.html

That thread as well as post number 17 explain the over rev results quite well.

 

Thanks... I used the search function multiple times and did find other threads were people had posted results and many of you guys responding to this thread chimed in with your opinions. I will definitely get my hands on the reports and look at them carefully. This is pretty amazing. I've learned a lot from you guys already. I broadened my search area and am keeping my eyes open. Thanks again.

V