had a scary moment and need some advice.
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From: Lorton, VA
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If you were closer, I'd teach you car control. 
Look into PCA AutoX events or track events so you can practice this stuff safely. A good car doesn't make you a good driver, eh?
The best advice is to brake as much as you can before the turn and get off of hard braking before turning. If its too late for that, let off the gas SLIGHTLY to transfer some of the car's weight forward. This will give the front tires more grip and start to slow you down. Turn into the corner and when you start to feel the rear come around, you turn the opposite way (This is the counter-intuitive part). So you're basically taking a left hand turn but turning right. The more you're sliding, the more you turn. You basically want to be pointing the tires to where you want to go. Grip the wheel firmly but not rigidly because the car will be fighting it out of your hands in a big fast slide. BTW, the faster you're going, the faster you're likely going to need to react.
I was really happy I've learned power sliding because when I was on track once, an old Porsche dumped the entire contents of its oil on one of the fastest parts of Limerock (back straight) and on the driving line. I saw one guy go flying off in front of me, then another, then saw a few off-track...Crap everyone was going off!! I hit the oil and the car immediately snapped sideways - there was no warning, it just let go. I immedaitely & instinctively counter turned all the way to opposite lock and scrubbed some speed by letting off throttle slightly. I stayed on track - one of only two people to keep it together before the rest of the field realized what was ahead via the flaggers. Amazingly, about 15 cars went off in the same spot and I think only one car bumped the tires softly. A Ford GT was one of the cars to go off! Very lucky for everyone that day.
So, this takes a lot of practice to feel natural, but once it does, its intoxicating and makes you a better, safer driver.
Anyway, back to car control, if you've done the above and still its too late, the best advice is "both feet in" - the brakes to help stop you, and the clutch to save your transmission and keep you from stalling. This also causes the car to basically go in a straight line because that's what physics dictates.. an object in motion continues in motion unless other forces are acted upon it - Slamming the brakes essentially removes all ability to turn (There are some exceptions, like with ABS cars, but in general if you're going in so hot, ABS will do little to save you). This theory is also good if there are people behind you (like there would be on-track) because they can anticipate where you're going and steer away. If you don't go all in, you're likely to go off track and then slingshot across and back over into traffic.
I recommend you practice this a bit.. go into a 10 mph corner with lots of run-off and two lanes where no one is around. Goose it enough to get the tires spinning while turning and then get off the gas, not fully, to about 1/2 throttle and hold it there. If you've done it aggressively enough, you'll be sliding and the rear will be coming around. Now quickly steer "into it" - the opposite direction from where you were initiallly turning (remember, this is the counter intuitive part from above). As the car recovers from the slide, force the wheel back to straight and give it more gas to maintain the slide and smooth out the switchback to grip land.
Hopefully that makes sense. Oh, and practice with left hand turns first, they're easier.
Oh and in response to Adias's post, I do not recommend you try any of the above, its dangerous.
Look into PCA AutoX events or track events so you can practice this stuff safely. A good car doesn't make you a good driver, eh?The best advice is to brake as much as you can before the turn and get off of hard braking before turning. If its too late for that, let off the gas SLIGHTLY to transfer some of the car's weight forward. This will give the front tires more grip and start to slow you down. Turn into the corner and when you start to feel the rear come around, you turn the opposite way (This is the counter-intuitive part). So you're basically taking a left hand turn but turning right. The more you're sliding, the more you turn. You basically want to be pointing the tires to where you want to go. Grip the wheel firmly but not rigidly because the car will be fighting it out of your hands in a big fast slide. BTW, the faster you're going, the faster you're likely going to need to react.
I was really happy I've learned power sliding because when I was on track once, an old Porsche dumped the entire contents of its oil on one of the fastest parts of Limerock (back straight) and on the driving line. I saw one guy go flying off in front of me, then another, then saw a few off-track...Crap everyone was going off!! I hit the oil and the car immediately snapped sideways - there was no warning, it just let go. I immedaitely & instinctively counter turned all the way to opposite lock and scrubbed some speed by letting off throttle slightly. I stayed on track - one of only two people to keep it together before the rest of the field realized what was ahead via the flaggers. Amazingly, about 15 cars went off in the same spot and I think only one car bumped the tires softly. A Ford GT was one of the cars to go off! Very lucky for everyone that day.
So, this takes a lot of practice to feel natural, but once it does, its intoxicating and makes you a better, safer driver.
Anyway, back to car control, if you've done the above and still its too late, the best advice is "both feet in" - the brakes to help stop you, and the clutch to save your transmission and keep you from stalling. This also causes the car to basically go in a straight line because that's what physics dictates.. an object in motion continues in motion unless other forces are acted upon it - Slamming the brakes essentially removes all ability to turn (There are some exceptions, like with ABS cars, but in general if you're going in so hot, ABS will do little to save you). This theory is also good if there are people behind you (like there would be on-track) because they can anticipate where you're going and steer away. If you don't go all in, you're likely to go off track and then slingshot across and back over into traffic.
I recommend you practice this a bit.. go into a 10 mph corner with lots of run-off and two lanes where no one is around. Goose it enough to get the tires spinning while turning and then get off the gas, not fully, to about 1/2 throttle and hold it there. If you've done it aggressively enough, you'll be sliding and the rear will be coming around. Now quickly steer "into it" - the opposite direction from where you were initiallly turning (remember, this is the counter intuitive part from above). As the car recovers from the slide, force the wheel back to straight and give it more gas to maintain the slide and smooth out the switchback to grip land.
Hopefully that makes sense. Oh, and practice with left hand turns first, they're easier.
Oh and in response to Adias's post, I do not recommend you try any of the above, its dangerous.
Ever watch Formula 1 ?? They're supposed to be the top 20 drivers in the world and even they lose it once in a while.
You've gotten some great advice here and I can only think of one thing to add, i.e. using your eyes. Cars go where your eyes are looking. If you were a racecar driver and you slide on oil and are now headed for the tire wall, if you're looking at that tire wall, you will hit it. But, if you look at where you want the car to go (back on the track) you have a chance of saving it. At the Summit Point track we emphasize looking at positive goals (looking where you want to be on the track) and negative goals (the tire wall). Skilled drivers work on training their eyes as well as their driving skills. At the skid pad when the back end gets loose, all the newbies look at where the car is going, but the skilled drivers look at where they want the car to go. It's the guys & gals who look at where they want the car to go that end up saving the car. If you look at the correct positive goal, with some training your hands and feet will do the right thing.
There are no guarantees though. If you want to save the car, the eyes have to be focussed on the right positive goal.
Hope that helps.
Mr. B
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Sometimes the best advice and the best skills don't work.
Ever watch Formula 1 ?? They're supposed to be the top 20 drivers in the world and even they lose it once in a while.
You've gotten some great advice here and I can only think of one thing to add, i.e. using your eyes. Cars go where your eyes are looking. If you were a racecar driver and you slide on oil and are now headed for the tire wall, if you're looking at that tire wall, you will hit it. But, if you look at where you want the car to go (back on the track) you have a chance of saving it. At the Summit Point track we emphasize looking at positive goals (looking where you want to be on the track) and negative goals (the tire wall). Skilled drivers work on training their eyes as well as their driving skills. At the skid pad when the back end gets loose, all the newbies look at where the car is going, but the skilled drivers look at where they want the car to go. It's the guys & gals who look at where they want the car to go that end up saving the car. If you look at the correct positive goal, with some training your hands and feet will do the right thing.
There are no guarantees though. If you want to save the car, the eyes have to be focussed on the right positive goal.
Hope that helps.
Mr. B
Ever watch Formula 1 ?? They're supposed to be the top 20 drivers in the world and even they lose it once in a while.
You've gotten some great advice here and I can only think of one thing to add, i.e. using your eyes. Cars go where your eyes are looking. If you were a racecar driver and you slide on oil and are now headed for the tire wall, if you're looking at that tire wall, you will hit it. But, if you look at where you want the car to go (back on the track) you have a chance of saving it. At the Summit Point track we emphasize looking at positive goals (looking where you want to be on the track) and negative goals (the tire wall). Skilled drivers work on training their eyes as well as their driving skills. At the skid pad when the back end gets loose, all the newbies look at where the car is going, but the skilled drivers look at where they want the car to go. It's the guys & gals who look at where they want the car to go that end up saving the car. If you look at the correct positive goal, with some training your hands and feet will do the right thing.
There are no guarantees though. If you want to save the car, the eyes have to be focussed on the right positive goal.
Hope that helps.
Mr. B
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From: Lorton, VA
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Racing
When I did my entire racing career improved.
Thanks,
Mr. B
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much appreciate all the advice and even the ribbing, hell, i probably deserve it.
it was never really my intention to try to show my friend the limits of my car. just to give him a taste.
looking back, it was that darn straight that got me in trouble. i only wanted to do the curves at safe speeds but briskly and i did that at the beggening.
when we got to the straight, i goosed it to give him an idea of how that car accelerates and as we all know, these cars can get up and go in no time.
i had actually slowed down for the turn, but as i found out, not nearly enough.
hard on the brakes would probably been the best thing to do but i didnt do it thinking it would start the car on an uncontrolable slide.
probably willbe headed to motorsports ranch for some track time...
it was never really my intention to try to show my friend the limits of my car. just to give him a taste.
looking back, it was that darn straight that got me in trouble. i only wanted to do the curves at safe speeds but briskly and i did that at the beggening.
when we got to the straight, i goosed it to give him an idea of how that car accelerates and as we all know, these cars can get up and go in no time.
i had actually slowed down for the turn, but as i found out, not nearly enough.
hard on the brakes would probably been the best thing to do but i didnt do it thinking it would start the car on an uncontrolable slide.
probably willbe headed to motorsports ranch for some track time...
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Speeding on public roads is a risky.... the speed limit is 15 mph for a reason there... sight distances most likely. On an open interstate that is straight, where traffic is thin, opening it up a bit is not as bad, but still dangerous around unpredictable other drivers.
Go to a Drivers Skills day or two, and then the Drivers Education events or Autocross for the thrills at the edge. On public roads, stay well within the range of what can be done.
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The way to "look cool and show abilities of you and car" to a friend, is to stay in control. If you look like you're about to **** your pants, you just look like a fool who has more money than sense.
As another poster said, on public roads, don't make others take on your risk; keep it within your control, and in your lane.
Many of us have done similarly risky/not in control stunts; you're nowhere near unique. Most of us get lucky, like you did, and hurt nothing more than our own pride or at worst some sheetmetal. Congrats on surviving and having the guts to show up and admit it here!
I also agree that taking it to AutoX is a GREAT way to learn, push it and survive.
As another poster said, on public roads, don't make others take on your risk; keep it within your control, and in your lane.
Many of us have done similarly risky/not in control stunts; you're nowhere near unique. Most of us get lucky, like you did, and hurt nothing more than our own pride or at worst some sheetmetal. Congrats on surviving and having the guts to show up and admit it here!
I also agree that taking it to AutoX is a GREAT way to learn, push it and survive.
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I wont be one to grip you on what you did was wrong. Things happen what can we do I'm glad your ok and safe.
The thing about sliding your car and counter steering is very simple to explain but hard to do if it wasn't obvious enough. The hard part is how fast you react after you counter steer. Cause once the tires regain traction again after the counter steer/sliding you have to ease things back to get pointed the right way or you end up spinning the car. At certain slip angles no matter what you do you will spin.
While "lifting" in concept is bad in concept if you know how to modulate the throttle where your on/off the gas you can actually steer the car with throttle. Done properly you can take corners at high speeds and corner tighter then if you were to stay at a constant throttle where you may actually go wide. Think of the car as a giant seesaw where when you hit the gas peddle weight is shifted to the rear and when your lifting weight is then shifted to the front. It's going to take you a long time to get it just right as the movements of your foot are very small so don't feel frustrated if you don't get to work right off the bat.
Engine braking is your friend!! If you need to scrub lots of speed fast don't just have faith in the brakes. Initial braking bite is deceptive as it will make it feel like your going to stop sooner then you actually will. Use the trans to slow you down. Remember to rev match if your going to drop more then one gear at a time.
If you need to scrub speed fast and I mean very fast hit the brakes hard "insert pooping analogy sure you heard it before" while coming off the brakes stab the clutch down and rev the life out of the motor and grab 2 gears lower then what your at. Don't even bother down shifting in order just a waste of time.
Practice said items at a track day you will pick up the sickness that is the track day fiend. Try to do HPDE's or Lapping days, don't just do PCA event's as everyone will welcome you regardless of what you drive. Autox will teach you what to do in "panic" situations and train you to have quick hands. Lapping days will teach you car control at high speeds and how to be smooth. Combine the two and you will be one amazing driver after a year or two.
The thing about sliding your car and counter steering is very simple to explain but hard to do if it wasn't obvious enough. The hard part is how fast you react after you counter steer. Cause once the tires regain traction again after the counter steer/sliding you have to ease things back to get pointed the right way or you end up spinning the car. At certain slip angles no matter what you do you will spin.
While "lifting" in concept is bad in concept if you know how to modulate the throttle where your on/off the gas you can actually steer the car with throttle. Done properly you can take corners at high speeds and corner tighter then if you were to stay at a constant throttle where you may actually go wide. Think of the car as a giant seesaw where when you hit the gas peddle weight is shifted to the rear and when your lifting weight is then shifted to the front. It's going to take you a long time to get it just right as the movements of your foot are very small so don't feel frustrated if you don't get to work right off the bat.
Engine braking is your friend!! If you need to scrub lots of speed fast don't just have faith in the brakes. Initial braking bite is deceptive as it will make it feel like your going to stop sooner then you actually will. Use the trans to slow you down. Remember to rev match if your going to drop more then one gear at a time.
If you need to scrub speed fast and I mean very fast hit the brakes hard "insert pooping analogy sure you heard it before" while coming off the brakes stab the clutch down and rev the life out of the motor and grab 2 gears lower then what your at. Don't even bother down shifting in order just a waste of time.
Practice said items at a track day you will pick up the sickness that is the track day fiend. Try to do HPDE's or Lapping days, don't just do PCA event's as everyone will welcome you regardless of what you drive. Autox will teach you what to do in "panic" situations and train you to have quick hands. Lapping days will teach you car control at high speeds and how to be smooth. Combine the two and you will be one amazing driver after a year or two.
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