Just thought I'd throw this out there. Just got my '07 997S and am loving it. (need to post some pics!) Anyway, I'm here from an '03 M3 that I had lowered on coilovers. The previous owner installed Bridgestone PP all season tires on the car 235/295. They are highly rated by TireRack as far as M&S tires go.
So, my question is about the handling. So far, I'm having trouble getting impressed. The thing has real heavy turn in understeer and then major lift throttle oversteer. If I tip her in and then get on the gas, she balances out well, but feels a bit on the edge. Now, I'm not even considering going 9/10's in the car. My M3 was much more balanced and had very little turn in understeer. This car feels like I would guess an old turbo feels like. That is if I take corners with the PASM on Sport. On Normal, forget about it. The thing wallows in turns like a porpoise. It has 20k miles and the shocks seem firm in both PASM modes, so I don't sense damping is really an issue. I couldn't imagine driving this thing at the track at this point, under/over steer would be such a tough balancing act.

Funny thing is that I did have some Michelin Pilot A/S tires on my M3 once and experienced almost the same thing. The sidewalls seem to almost cave in when you hit a corner and the thing was not balanced at all. I was considering leaving the A/S tires on through the winter and getting normal max performance rubber next Spring.

So, is the handling attributable to the rubber? I love the car and am having a ball double clutch downshifting after several years with my SMG M3. If anyone has reflections on performance with all season rubber, it would be appreciated.

 

Coming out of a 04 E46 M3 with just an Eibach Pro kit and sways along with a set of RG4's with 255's on front and 285's in the rear I know what you are feeling. I do feel that alot of what you are experiencing is going to be caused by the A/S rubber. That being said I also experienced somewhat the same effect when I got out of the M3 into my 07 997S (brand new). The M3 felt much more stable on turn in than the S, except for the fact I noticed I was going through the corner a tad faster than I was with the M3.

Switch out the A/S rubber for proper summer tires and I am sure this should help quite a bit.

A pic of the M..I remember you on a few of the M3 boards..I was Dave04M3.

 

Sounds like you're a much more track-oriented and knowledgeable driver than I, so I can only give you impressions from an old/street-only guy (though I raced karts years back). I'm not familiar with the tires you're citing but all-season tires on the car seem like it would make a huge/negative difference. I've been very happy with Michelin PS2's and many on this site would agree that they are excellent for the car. One of two or three tires that came OEM with it and many people change to them if they don't already have them.
Re the wallowing, yes, I found the car wallowed and pitched quite a bit in stock form - even with the PS2's. I've replaced the coilovers with Bilstein's and swapped sway bars (also a very common change) and it makes a substantial difference. BTW, I feel strongly that the PASM firm setting with the stock dampers is pretty useless. Far too harsh to ensure that the tires remain connected to the ground. Much different with the Bilstein's in both standard and sport settings. The car does still have some wallow/pitching in it - and I think that is part of the 'charm' of the car. It has been written that the 09 997.2 models have mitigated this feature.
The under/oversteer problem. It is part of the driving characteristics of the car. Significantly improved with the changes mentioned above but your driving techniques have to change to accomodate the car. Others more knowledgeable than I can fill you in there.
GL with it though. It really is a radically different experience than your Miata. Not all for the better, but in general, a great ride.

 

Hey Dave, I remember you as well. Interesting. Well, I had hoped that the A/S tires would not be that bad, but maybe they are. I sense it is the softer sidewalls that are killing the handling. Even going straight, if I slalom the car, the tail really pitches around. I'm enjoying the benefits of the PASM for family cruising on the highway though. The sports setting is stiff, but if it helps the handling, I'll live with it.
I'm not forking out the money for PS2's. I'll find another of the choices, I'm sure they'll work a lot better, then I'll keep the A/S tires for the winter.

 

Hmmm. I've had an M3 in the past and it felt like a big fat porker compared to the 911. Given presently the car is lowered on H&R's and rides on 20's and my M3 was more or less stock, maybe your answer is to lower it. The car should handle like a go cart. But you need to remember with all 911's; slow in to the corner and WOT out.

 

Ah well, you probably should have put coilovers on the M3 with 245/275 rubber, they handle like go carts too. But I don't think the riding is near as refined as the 911. I'm sure if I had coilovers on the 911 I'd be more impressed, but I was hoping not to go crazy with the mod bug - at least for a couple of years! (I know it will bite eventually!)

Thanks for the driving tip. I've noticed that already. Seems that if the entry speed is too high, you get understeer. I notice there is some oversteer if you get on it, but as you said WOT on the exit and the big meats in the rear just seem to stick and beg for more throttle. Instead of having the feeling the car will slide, it just seems to stick more and go wicked fast. The extra power and torque compared to the M3 are just so much more fun. The biggest thing is the difference in weight. The M3 could be considered a porker, but it is a coupe. The agility and benefit of the 911 is not only more power, but less weight. It is noticable all the time.
Funny how those with modded suspensions were attracted to my thread. I figured stock suspension with PASM will be the ticket, but it seems that it is not a perfect solution either.

 

Your tires will be a major contributor to your disappointment - your all-seasons will be compromising grip and handling. Take a look at the Bridgestone RE-11. Getting some excellent reviews, and pretty reasonably priced.

 

I went from a front engine frontwheel drive car to the 911. I had to completely re-learn how to drive for the 911. The 911 is almost the opposite of whatever technique you currently may be used to. I just drove the nuts out of it for the first year and experimented everytime I drove it and found what works for me. Seat time is a must. And ditch the A/S tires. The tire pattern and sidewalls offers way too much deflection.

 

I can't wait to burn through the PZeros that came on mine so I can make the move to Bridgestone RE-11's.

 

I've had a few BMW's (most recent 99 328. 02 330. 06 330 . and 08 M3) . The tires may be part of the problem but no where near what the current run flats are .

That said ,learning the handling on a Porsche is an adjustment as the rear engine is a big change in dynamics compared to what you have been most familiar with .

I sometimes will drive my Turbo back to back with the M3 and it's almost like speaking two languages . Fluency is required but one can't try and fuse them .

BTW --congrats on the new car !!! Once you adjust .. and change the tires and suspension you will notice some of the sophistication in the car . Then you;lll climb into an M3 and notice a big difference .

 

Yep - same here. As soon as my P Zero's are done I'll be doing the same thing!

 

I disliked my PZero's so much I pulled them off with 70% remaining and sold them. I now run PS2's and I am much happier. I haven't tried the RE11's but a number of people seem to like them.

 

Went from 03M3 to 07C2S and first track day (advanced / Black) I turned a quicker lap in the bone stock C2S than I did in my 4 years with the M3 at the track with moderate modification (upgraded pads and Euro rotors, fluid, OZs w/ PSCups). Yes, the driving feel and style was very different, but the C2S is extremely potent. Update a few things on the C2S (fluid and pads, front control arms for alignment) and the lap times became significantly better.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, dying to get some pics up here, my car is hot! I need to search the archives for tire threads now. The rear tires are the biggest limitation - they just aren't made in a lot of types. From all I've read everyone pays the big bucks for the PS2's, they're obviously quite good. The RE11's might be sticky, but I bet you pay the price in road noise. I drove a car with the PZeros, boy were those suckers loud.
I suspect everyone is right and that it is a tire issue. It was the one thing wrong with this car. I knew I had a fair investment getting new tires. I figured I could swap these on in the winter though and then not need to invest in snow wheels.
Already tried a bit of the changed driving style today - pitch it in and then romp on the gas. If the car is pushing in the rear it really is planted and picks up speed in a hurry! I need to remember how I drove my VW Bug!

 

Think VW bug with almost 300hp more, then you are getting closer

Enjoy the car!