IMHO this is a "S" biased comminuty. When someone posts a question the responses are usaully wait for the "S" and there is nothing wrong with that. The "S" is a better, faster, more capable car than the base.

But one point that is rarely brought up is drivers skill.

I attended the PSDS in Birmingham and to a man every instructor said don't worry about which porsche you have or mods you have; continue to work on your skills as a driver first. That will more than make up for whether you have an S or not.

When I decided to get a 911 I purposely went for a base with their thoughts in mind. Sure other cars are faster but can they drive it faster than someone who is a skilled driver in a somewhat slower car.

I have since attended about 8 DE's (all in the novice level) and I can't begin to come to approach using all of my boxsters capabilites. (this week I am taking out my carrera for the first time for three days.) Seat time will get me there.

Of course the best drivers will get the best out of the best cars. But if your buying your first porsche it may take years (if ever) to get to the "best" level.

Saving 7-10K and getting involved in some DE's and driving schools just may be a better route for some people interested in really challenging their cars potential.

Just another way to look at it.

No matter what, owning any porsche and driving it to your potential is a thrill we are all lucky to experience.

 

Good comments!

 

Engine size doesn't matter, it's how you use it!

 

...but deep down do you really want the slower car?

I too did the Porshe Barber event. Excellent teaching skills and I use what I learned there at every DE I attend and I use a lot of there teaching as an instructor with my students.

 

OK...if you believe everyone wants the fastest car..why not tell everyone to wait to get a turbo...or a GT2/3...or a vette.

My point is that at the level that most people start driving porsches (and asking the "S"- non"S" question) becoming a better driver might be more important than the car.

 

Why are we buying sports cars...to purposly buy the slower car? No I do not believe that. We all buy what we can afford, simple as that. I traded up from the 07 S to the 09 S because it will be a more fun and a faster car for me at the track. Plus PDK was a huge draw for me for other reasons... I enjoy that. I would love to have a GT3 or GT2 but I can not afford it right now.

 

You make a great point, drivers skill will always be huge factor when on the track. However two drivers who's skill is about the same, the S will be faster around the track.

When purchasing my car, the options that the S had included over the non S makes it a much better deal IMO.

 

Obviously that is not true.

I told you why I bought my base. Believe it or not. I could certainly afford an "S" since I have a boxster sitting right next to the carrera and trading it in would have certainly got me an "S" if not an 04-06 turbo.

At PSDS; I learned alot, asked a ton of questions and I listened. I decided to go a route that made sense to me as someone who wants to be a better driver.

Its just a different answer to the question that is raised here all the time.

 

Buck, I am not disagreeing with you at all..OK? I'm just discussing. I understand your theory. Personally I'd like to try out a Boxster or Miata at the track to work on momentum skills...I get it...but if money was no object people will buy the faster car between a nonS and S.

At the track a Carrera S will be better than a non-S not just because the S is faster but you can throttle steer better with the S, the S has better brakes for working on threshold braking and the pads are super easy to change in the Carrera S vs. the non-S.
If you just want to drive a slower car at the track drive the Boxster...the power to weight ratio is better, you can still work on momentum driving skills.

 

That's why all of us except professional racers are faster in a 4S than in a 2S. We lack the driving skills to bring out the best in the car.

 

Absolutely; a discussion. I have read and enjoyed many of your posts (esp about your PSDS experiences) and you are a extremely experienced driver and porsche enthusiast.

Of course the S is better car. I said that in my first post. And an S can do all those things you mention better than a non S.

But a better driver can probable do all things better in a non S better than a novice driver in an S. My point is that at a starting point to learn to be a good driver the non S is a fine. The instructors at PSDS certainly thought so.

And if your never going to take it to the track why consider an "S" at all. Since throttle steering and threshold braking are really not necessary in most normal driving.

Again, just another way to look at the question of first porsche purchase.

 

If the goal is to optimize for track speeds, then for a new- or mid-level driver, trading car for experience is surely the key. No argument there. The performances differences between a 997 and a 997S are not so great that they can't be easily overcome through enhanced skills. But why have to choose?
If the goal is to get around the track at the greatest speeds for the dollar in the C/CS price class, just buy a new GT-R. It will easily outrun non-TT's while you're filing your nails,
If the point is that a lesser car can build better skills (which is a valid point), then get a Miata. The differences between the two Porsche's are too trivial to matter here.
I learned some time back that I should buy the car/bike/etc that I want, rather than working my way up to it. Saves money and keeps a smile on my face.

 

You are right, the Driver Skills make a lot for the difference in HP.

I once passed a 997 Carrera (don't exactly know either an S or non-S) on a curvy road with my old E46 3.25ci Cab drifting.... The kid in the car was young, I am also young, but I have attended a couple of Track Days with my old E46, my dad's 993 C4S, my uncle's 997TT... I unfortunately did not get a chance to take my C2S, I am planning to this year

On a street roll and on a track makes a lot of difference. A lot of cars may pass a 997 on a straight roll, but on the track all those American Muscle cars that passed you on the street will not even be on your rear view mirror...

On the street there are only a handful things you may do to win, does not matter so much how good of a driver you are... But on the track, driving requires practice and skills!

 

Well don't buy the Carrera if you are going to drive and say "I wish I bought the S".
The S has a lot nicer options, that you could get if you pay for them separately. I know it is not a question of money, but I think everytime you are driving the Carrera, you would be asking yourself if the S would have performed better here and there; and that is enough to annoy me and make me buy the S first.

 

I bought the 'S' with the intent of growing into its capabilities. I believe I will be learning a long long time and that makes me extremely happy with the purchase and extra $$$ spent.