Why Are Used Porsche Prices Going Up So Fast??
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mact3333,
With all due respect your advice doesn't make sense for my situation. As I stated in my original post I can only keep the car for the duration of the warrantee. Buying new gives me the full 4 years which allows me to keep the car the longest.
I did take a look at the used 911 selection but nothing even came close to what is acceptable to me. Here in North Jersey a good percentage of 911 owners are very busy professionals like Physicians, Lawyers, Stock Brokers, etc. So busy it seems that they don't have the time to care for their cars like I do or perhaps they don't know how or just don't care (no offense intended to you professional types).
It seems that many of the cars are leased and so they probably just don't give a f*ck because in 36 months they'll get to start all over again with another brand new car and that is definitely not the case for me. My 911 experience is only going to be a once in a lifetime shot so I want it to be "perfect". On the used cars I looked at the paint was in horrible condition as were the front spoilers, lower hoods, wheels, etc. When I sold my 15 year Miata last spring "she" was in ~MUCH~ better shape than any of the 2 and 3 year old 911's I looked at.
With all due respect your advice doesn't make sense for my situation. As I stated in my original post I can only keep the car for the duration of the warrantee. Buying new gives me the full 4 years which allows me to keep the car the longest.
I did take a look at the used 911 selection but nothing even came close to what is acceptable to me. Here in North Jersey a good percentage of 911 owners are very busy professionals like Physicians, Lawyers, Stock Brokers, etc. So busy it seems that they don't have the time to care for their cars like I do or perhaps they don't know how or just don't care (no offense intended to you professional types).
It seems that many of the cars are leased and so they probably just don't give a f*ck because in 36 months they'll get to start all over again with another brand new car and that is definitely not the case for me. My 911 experience is only going to be a once in a lifetime shot so I want it to be "perfect". On the used cars I looked at the paint was in horrible condition as were the front spoilers, lower hoods, wheels, etc. When I sold my 15 year Miata last spring "she" was in ~MUCH~ better shape than any of the 2 and 3 year old 911's I looked at.
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Gently used is the only way to go. The new car premium is just too great. Once in a great while you get lucky and buy the right new car that experiences minimum depreciation. But the odds are stacked against you. I bought all my Porsche used (sub 10K miles) except the 993 which was "I just turned 40 middle age crisis" and needed newest Porsche right now. The 996TT with less than 3k on it was better than 1/3 off MSRP price and it had every option I would have picked if I ordered the car new. There is just too much depreciation in a new car unless its ultra-limited production. Regarding off lease cars..I won't touch one, they are like high priced hookers somebody used, abused, and then just dumped. They usually end up in some "high end" $100 a day rent a car outlet and rented out like a street walker.
Last edited by Duane996tt; Jan 24, 2010 at 01:11 AM.
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mact3333,
No worries mate, we're totally cool!
getz,
With all due respect I didn't appreciate you telling me I made a "bonehead" decision because I opted for the new car as opposed to buying used. Sorry Doc but with all due respect I don't agree with your diagnosis. Are you an Orthopedist by any chance? Is that why you said I made a "bonehead" decision?
By the way I bought my car in cash which is the least expensive way to own a car (leasing is the most expensive). It's almost like you are telling me that I don't deserve to have a new car because my income is very low and I completely (but still respectfully) disagree with you. As I said in my original post I saved for many years to be able to do this and the plan was always for a new car, not a used one. I did invest along the way and that definitely helped me reach me goal. I also have an "exit plan". In 4 years my daily driver will be 14 years old and in need of replacement. My 911 should be valued somewhere in the low 50's by then. I plan to take that money and replace my daily driver with a brand new Mazda 3 and at the same time buy a less expensive sports car. I may look at another Mazda Miata or the "new" RX-7 if the rumors are true. By then I'll be approaching the age where most of the men in my family have past away (early 50's) so they will likely be the last two cars I'll ever have to worry about. That was another attribute that factored into my decision to go for a brand new 911. As a medical professional you are fully aware that none of us live forever and owning a new 911 was pretty high on my "bucket list". Now that has been checked off. I have a few other things on my 'bucket list" that I'm now turning my attention to. You don't know Britney Spears by any chance, do you? 
adias,
I totally agree with you that my order isn't much out of the range of a car that a dealer would order for inventory. One of the first dealers I went to checked the computer for all US inventory and we came close but there were no exact matches. Several options that I had no interest in kept coming up such as Bluetooth, Bose and Powered Seats with Driver's memory which combined are almost 4K. That's my "tire money". Also, I wanted a freshly painted car that wasn't sitting on the lot for months. You'll recall I'm the detail fanatic. A few weeks back you asked me to post my method on touch up painting. Remember? I wanted a "clean" start with factory fresh paint. The desire for fresh paint and not wanting the options mentioned above were the two primary reasons I went with a factory order. The factory order actually saved me money because I didn't have to pay for unwanted options.
No worries mate, we're totally cool!
getz,
With all due respect I didn't appreciate you telling me I made a "bonehead" decision because I opted for the new car as opposed to buying used. Sorry Doc but with all due respect I don't agree with your diagnosis. Are you an Orthopedist by any chance? Is that why you said I made a "bonehead" decision?
By the way I bought my car in cash which is the least expensive way to own a car (leasing is the most expensive). It's almost like you are telling me that I don't deserve to have a new car because my income is very low and I completely (but still respectfully) disagree with you. As I said in my original post I saved for many years to be able to do this and the plan was always for a new car, not a used one. I did invest along the way and that definitely helped me reach me goal. I also have an "exit plan". In 4 years my daily driver will be 14 years old and in need of replacement. My 911 should be valued somewhere in the low 50's by then. I plan to take that money and replace my daily driver with a brand new Mazda 3 and at the same time buy a less expensive sports car. I may look at another Mazda Miata or the "new" RX-7 if the rumors are true. By then I'll be approaching the age where most of the men in my family have past away (early 50's) so they will likely be the last two cars I'll ever have to worry about. That was another attribute that factored into my decision to go for a brand new 911. As a medical professional you are fully aware that none of us live forever and owning a new 911 was pretty high on my "bucket list". Now that has been checked off. I have a few other things on my 'bucket list" that I'm now turning my attention to. You don't know Britney Spears by any chance, do you? adias,
I totally agree with you that my order isn't much out of the range of a car that a dealer would order for inventory. One of the first dealers I went to checked the computer for all US inventory and we came close but there were no exact matches. Several options that I had no interest in kept coming up such as Bluetooth, Bose and Powered Seats with Driver's memory which combined are almost 4K. That's my "tire money".
Also, I wanted a freshly painted car that wasn't sitting on the lot for months. You'll recall I'm the detail fanatic. A few weeks back you asked me to post my method on touch up painting. Remember? I wanted a "clean" start with factory fresh paint. The desire for fresh paint and not wanting the options mentioned above were the two primary reasons I went with a factory order. The factory order actually saved me money because I didn't have to pay for unwanted options. Sorry about the harsh words mate, enjoy your ride. If you are planning on cashing out at 50, then the long term financial out look means very little. I personally would rather avoid the fattest part of the depreciation curve, possibly even buy a 996 that I could keep forever, as giving that P-car back to step into a Mazda is going to feel like a fate worse than death.
Cheers,
-Getz
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Sorry about the harsh words mate, enjoy your ride. If you are planning on cashing out at 50, then the long term financial out look means very little. I personally would rather avoid the fattest part of the depreciation curve, possibly even buy a 996 that I could keep forever, as giving that P-car back to step into a Mazda is going to feel like a fate worse than death.
Cheers,
-Getz
Cheers,
-Getz
We both know what you want and it's not a 996.
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mact3333 and getz,
Thank you both for your latest replies. I'll admit that I don't have many friends in the medical profession though several of my clients are MD's. I generally stay away from doctors because I only have a "basic and essential" health care plan. It doesn't cover much but it's better than nothing. It's very difficult to get reasonably priced health insurance when you are self-employed. I don't have any "pre-existing conditions" but New Jersey is one of three states that can't turn anyone down because of them. That may sound like a good thing but it's not because it means that those of us that are still relatively healthy are paying for those who aren't.
Getting back to Porsche, you are probably aware of all those huge bonuses the Wall Street bankers receive. It's been well publicized as of late.
Well, most of them live right here in North Jersey. These are the guys who are leasing, abusing and turning in their Porsches which is another reason why I opted for new instead of CPO.
Now I better put on my flame proof suit and expect some personal attacks from forum members who live in NJ and work on Wall St.
Thank you both for your latest replies. I'll admit that I don't have many friends in the medical profession though several of my clients are MD's. I generally stay away from doctors because I only have a "basic and essential" health care plan. It doesn't cover much but it's better than nothing. It's very difficult to get reasonably priced health insurance when you are self-employed. I don't have any "pre-existing conditions" but New Jersey is one of three states that can't turn anyone down because of them. That may sound like a good thing but it's not because it means that those of us that are still relatively healthy are paying for those who aren't.
Getting back to Porsche, you are probably aware of all those huge bonuses the Wall Street bankers receive. It's been well publicized as of late.
Well, most of them live right here in North Jersey. These are the guys who are leasing, abusing and turning in their Porsches which is another reason why I opted for new instead of CPO.Now I better put on my flame proof suit and expect some personal attacks from forum members who live in NJ and work on Wall St.
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Just look at some recent Manheim and other auction prices. I was quoted $39K for my launch 997S in late November. I have been offered (site unseen), $43K, for it on a trade.......and no, the dealer is not taking it out of my a$$ on the purchase side. I negotiated that price first and then we went to the 997S. This is a BMW dealer that will wholesale my Porsche.
2005 997 S
12/16/09CEN FLALease$50,50014,323AboveGRAY6G6Yes
10/29/09MANHEIMRegular$44,00016,905AvgSILVER6G6Yes
12/10/09MANHEIMRegular$40,00032,040BelowSILVER6G6Yes
12/17/09RIVRSIDELease$48,50034,016AvgBLACK6GAYes
11/10/09FAAOLease$42,80036,654AvgSILVER6G6Yes
12/08/09FAAOLease$43,25036,868AvgRED6GT6Yes
2005 997 S
12/16/09CEN FLALease$50,50014,323AboveGRAY6G6Yes
10/29/09MANHEIMRegular$44,00016,905AvgSILVER6G6Yes
12/10/09MANHEIMRegular$40,00032,040BelowSILVER6G6Yes
12/17/09RIVRSIDELease$48,50034,016AvgBLACK6GAYes
11/10/09FAAOLease$42,80036,654AvgSILVER6G6Yes
12/08/09FAAOLease$43,25036,868AvgRED6GT6Yes
Last edited by amerlemans; Jan 24, 2010 at 03:22 PM.
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mact3333 and getz,
Thank you both for your latest replies. I'll admit that I don't have many friends in the medical profession though several of my clients are MD's. I generally stay away from doctors because I only have a "basic and essential" health care plan. It doesn't cover much but it's better than nothing. It's very difficult to get reasonably priced health insurance when you are self-employed. I don't have any "pre-existing conditions" but New Jersey is one of three states that can't turn anyone down because of them. That may sound like a good thing but it's not because it means that those of us that are still relatively healthy are paying for those who aren't.
Getting back to Porsche, you are probably aware of all those huge bonuses the Wall Street bankers receive. It's been well publicized as of late. Well, most of them live right here in North Jersey. These are the guys who are leasing, abusing and turning in their Porsches which is another reason why I opted for new instead of CPO.
Now I better put on my flame proof suit and expect some personal attacks from forum members who live in NJ and work on Wall St.
Thank you both for your latest replies. I'll admit that I don't have many friends in the medical profession though several of my clients are MD's. I generally stay away from doctors because I only have a "basic and essential" health care plan. It doesn't cover much but it's better than nothing. It's very difficult to get reasonably priced health insurance when you are self-employed. I don't have any "pre-existing conditions" but New Jersey is one of three states that can't turn anyone down because of them. That may sound like a good thing but it's not because it means that those of us that are still relatively healthy are paying for those who aren't.
Getting back to Porsche, you are probably aware of all those huge bonuses the Wall Street bankers receive. It's been well publicized as of late.
Well, most of them live right here in North Jersey. These are the guys who are leasing, abusing and turning in their Porsches which is another reason why I opted for new instead of CPO.Now I better put on my flame proof suit and expect some personal attacks from forum members who live in NJ and work on Wall St.
I am sure some of those wall street guys baby their cars as well. Best to avoid us if you can, but no one escapes us forever :P Enjoy the car.
-Getz
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There are used Porsche bargains out there but they tend to be at the higher pricetags. Most used car shoppers are looking in the 45K -60K range and it's very hard to find the right car and feel like it's overpriced at those levels .
Jump up to the 80K to 90K range and WOW --bargains galore . Here are the specific models which seem to be very attractive for the dollar (in my opinion) :
1) 2007 Turbos . There are 07 Turbos with ball park of 20K miles and CPO selling in the low to mid 80's . Since many have modified these cars the stock ones are selling for significantly less . I know a lot of folks think the mods don't matter but in Turbo territory they do matter !!!! I spotted a Sportec asking 119K or so and that's reasonable but stock the 07's will price in the 80's and if one is willing to opt for a tiptronic it's even LESS.
2) 2007 Gt3 -- Thse Gt3's sold in 07 for MSRP and some went for over sticker and now they are in the 80's . That's quite a nice deal.
3) 2009 C2S -- Whether leftover or used with the first year of depreciation there were so many 2009 997S cars made that the sheer supply, incentives, and knowlege of discounts has kept thse cars low . In fact I have seen 07 cars selling 15K less --that's two less years of warranty plus an older car for peanuts of savings IMO.
The 09 cars are still a great buy.
Jump up to the 80K to 90K range and WOW --bargains galore . Here are the specific models which seem to be very attractive for the dollar (in my opinion) :
1) 2007 Turbos . There are 07 Turbos with ball park of 20K miles and CPO selling in the low to mid 80's . Since many have modified these cars the stock ones are selling for significantly less . I know a lot of folks think the mods don't matter but in Turbo territory they do matter !!!! I spotted a Sportec asking 119K or so and that's reasonable but stock the 07's will price in the 80's and if one is willing to opt for a tiptronic it's even LESS.
2) 2007 Gt3 -- Thse Gt3's sold in 07 for MSRP and some went for over sticker and now they are in the 80's . That's quite a nice deal.
3) 2009 C2S -- Whether leftover or used with the first year of depreciation there were so many 2009 997S cars made that the sheer supply, incentives, and knowlege of discounts has kept thse cars low . In fact I have seen 07 cars selling 15K less --that's two less years of warranty plus an older car for peanuts of savings IMO.
The 09 cars are still a great buy.
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There are used Porsche bargains out there but they tend to be at the higher pricetags. Most used car shoppers are looking in the 45K -60K range and it's very hard to find the right car and feel like it's overpriced at those levels .
Jump up to the 80K to 90K range and WOW --bargains galore . Here are the specific models which seem to be very attractive for the dollar (in my opinion) :
1) 2007 Turbos . There are 07 Turbos with ball park of 20K miles and CPO selling in the low to mid 80's . Since many have modified these cars the stock ones are selling for significantly less . I know a lot of folks think the mods don't matter but in Turbo territory they do matter !!!! I spotted a Sportec asking 119K or so and that's reasonable but stock the 07's will price in the 80's and if one is willing to opt for a tiptronic it's even LESS.
2) 2007 Gt3 -- Thse Gt3's sold in 07 for MSRP and some went for over sticker and now they are in the 80's . That's quite a nice deal.
3) 2009 C2S -- Whether leftover or used with the first year of depreciation there were so many 2009 997S cars made that the sheer supply, incentives, and knowlege of discounts has kept thse cars low . In fact I have seen 07 cars selling 15K less --that's two less years of warranty plus an older car for peanuts of savings IMO.
The 09 cars are still a great buy.
Jump up to the 80K to 90K range and WOW --bargains galore . Here are the specific models which seem to be very attractive for the dollar (in my opinion) :
1) 2007 Turbos . There are 07 Turbos with ball park of 20K miles and CPO selling in the low to mid 80's . Since many have modified these cars the stock ones are selling for significantly less . I know a lot of folks think the mods don't matter but in Turbo territory they do matter !!!! I spotted a Sportec asking 119K or so and that's reasonable but stock the 07's will price in the 80's and if one is willing to opt for a tiptronic it's even LESS.
2) 2007 Gt3 -- Thse Gt3's sold in 07 for MSRP and some went for over sticker and now they are in the 80's . That's quite a nice deal.
3) 2009 C2S -- Whether leftover or used with the first year of depreciation there were so many 2009 997S cars made that the sheer supply, incentives, and knowlege of discounts has kept thse cars low . In fact I have seen 07 cars selling 15K less --that's two less years of warranty plus an older car for peanuts of savings IMO.
The 09 cars are still a great buy.
Last edited by amerlemans; Jan 25, 2010 at 04:53 AM.
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Auto Union - good for you. Enjoy every minute of your dream. Only thing I may disagree with you on is that you scratched off some options that are "must haves" for people. So given that you will have to sell in 4 years, your target buyer audience just shrunk by a lot. So while I wouldnt have added many more options I would have added some inexpensive ones that are "musts" for most buyers. However, your fanaticism for your car will still create a desired one.
Funnily enough I bought my "perfect" 09 C2S on the lot. I specced it out and then went shopping. Mine had every option identically to the spec except for it was black (instead of Basalt Black) and had crests (that I dont care whether I have them or not). However, the $20K off sticker I got - soothed the pain.
Once again enjoy your dream. I agree with Yrallis - its not how much you earn, its how much you have that matters. Your frugality "earned" you the right to enjoy your dream.
Funnily enough I bought my "perfect" 09 C2S on the lot. I specced it out and then went shopping. Mine had every option identically to the spec except for it was black (instead of Basalt Black) and had crests (that I dont care whether I have them or not). However, the $20K off sticker I got - soothed the pain.
Once again enjoy your dream. I agree with Yrallis - its not how much you earn, its how much you have that matters. Your frugality "earned" you the right to enjoy your dream.
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Cpo
Auto Union: Query whether at the end of the 4 year warranty period a dealer would take in your car and resell it to you as a CPO with 2 year warranty, at some premium of course. You would have your car back that you've meticulously cared for.
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Rodsky,
I assume you are referring to Bluetooth, Bose and perhaps the Powered Seats with Driver's Memory, right? Some research that I recently did revealed that the factory Bluetooth option can be added to my PCM although it would cost about $1000 instead of the $695 they get you when you add it during the build.
As far as Bose, I'm a former audio engineer. Any audio professional will tell you that Bose is garbage. Most Bose products manipulate sound to what THEY think it should sound like. Their products are poor when it comes to accurate reproduction. Walk into any professional recording studio and you'll never see a product made by Bose. They specialize in building overpriced products for the consumer. My "standard" system sounds quite pleasing to me although I didn't like the fact that loudness is on by default but that took only one quick touch of the screen to fix that.
Now when it comes to the Powered Seats with Driver's Memory I reasoned it out that since I'm the only driver I won't need to move the seat very much. My Toyota Camry has a powered driver's seat and the only time it ever gets used is when I bring the car in for service. I also reasoned that I could save a few pounds. The GT2 and GT3 do not come with powered seats for just that reason. By the way my standard seats do come with a powered seat back it's just the forward/back and up/down that have manual controls.
Sven,
That's an interesting suggestion but somehow I'll bet PCNA has a rule against doing that. I honestly don't understand why PCNA doesn't offer extended an warrantee. I'm sure people will buy them if they did, I know I would. My dad was able to extend the warrantee on his Mercedes E Class by another 2 years and the warrantee was through Mercedes itself.
I've heard way too many horror stories from companies like Fidelity and US Fidelis (by the way is anyone else suspicious why the name of these two companies sounds so much alike
) denying claims. The extended warrantees these places offer aren't worth much more than the paper they are printed on.
I assume you are referring to Bluetooth, Bose and perhaps the Powered Seats with Driver's Memory, right? Some research that I recently did revealed that the factory Bluetooth option can be added to my PCM although it would cost about $1000 instead of the $695 they get you when you add it during the build.
As far as Bose, I'm a former audio engineer. Any audio professional will tell you that Bose is garbage. Most Bose products manipulate sound to what THEY think it should sound like. Their products are poor when it comes to accurate reproduction. Walk into any professional recording studio and you'll never see a product made by Bose. They specialize in building overpriced products for the consumer. My "standard" system sounds quite pleasing to me although I didn't like the fact that loudness is on by default but that took only one quick touch of the screen to fix that.
Now when it comes to the Powered Seats with Driver's Memory I reasoned it out that since I'm the only driver I won't need to move the seat very much. My Toyota Camry has a powered driver's seat and the only time it ever gets used is when I bring the car in for service. I also reasoned that I could save a few pounds. The GT2 and GT3 do not come with powered seats for just that reason. By the way my standard seats do come with a powered seat back it's just the forward/back and up/down that have manual controls.
Sven,
That's an interesting suggestion but somehow I'll bet PCNA has a rule against doing that. I honestly don't understand why PCNA doesn't offer extended an warrantee. I'm sure people will buy them if they did, I know I would. My dad was able to extend the warrantee on his Mercedes E Class by another 2 years and the warrantee was through Mercedes itself.
I've heard way too many horror stories from companies like Fidelity and US Fidelis (by the way is anyone else suspicious why the name of these two companies sounds so much alike
) denying claims. The extended warrantees these places offer aren't worth much more than the paper they are printed on.
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A friend of mine just spent 2 months looking for 07 Turbo Coupe. Only about 10 were in the 80's asking price and the best he got was about 4k off asking. Really 2k off price with a 2k shipping allowance. I think all of you guys that have said cars are more scarce are pretty close. I think lots have given up on getting the number $$$ they need to so they've put em back in the garage and are waiting or have flat out given up
New car sales got hammered for Porsche in December I was told. Porsche North America sold 8 (eight) 997 Turbo's in All of the US this past December. They did sell 52 GT3's but that's a new model and most were spoken for.
Porsche is going to struggle for a few years with new cars. They can't offer up a brand new $165k ok loaded TT when they are competing against F430's that carry a heavier sex appeal and more exotic of a look. Porsches are awesome I have a few but it's just reality for Porsche. Until something knocks the good 2 and 3 year old exotics back up above 200k they will have their hands full trying to push their inventory.
It's still time to buy imho. At least for another 6-9 months when consumer confidence creeps back up.
New car sales got hammered for Porsche in December I was told. Porsche North America sold 8 (eight) 997 Turbo's in All of the US this past December. They did sell 52 GT3's but that's a new model and most were spoken for.
Porsche is going to struggle for a few years with new cars. They can't offer up a brand new $165k ok loaded TT when they are competing against F430's that carry a heavier sex appeal and more exotic of a look. Porsches are awesome I have a few but it's just reality for Porsche. Until something knocks the good 2 and 3 year old exotics back up above 200k they will have their hands full trying to push their inventory.
It's still time to buy imho. At least for another 6-9 months when consumer confidence creeps back up.