Nothing you would feel maybe 5-6rwhp throughout the band...the best bang for the buck is the cats.

Also there isn't much to be gained on the 3.6L 997.1. AWE even with their tests showed only 11hp gained with a full exhaust that included headers, cats and new mufflers. When an aftermarket company that is in business to sell you parts and they admit to only 11hp for some $5k in parts...I would pass.

For the 3.6L it truly is for sound...but you know I think the 3.6 sounds better stock than the 3.8L does. Sounds more "racey" to me..


Dave

 

So let me get this straight... The gases that exit from the engine go into the headers (the 3 armed looking things)...then the gasses go through the "cats".... then the gas passes through the mufflerwhich dampens the noise?

Does an entire exhaust system include headers, cats, and mufflers?

Is there any advantage to switching out this stuff? You boys seem to be spending thousand$ on this stuff.

Thanks for the link

 

Yes, Yes, and maybe! It's hard to explain why we pay so much for this stuff. I think it's a desire to squeeze out every ounce of performance we can just to say we did. Kind of a hobby...or a toy to play with.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

No need to explain all your accessories - We've been doing it for years. It is what seperates us from the animals.

 

I agree with the header design, I did a little research myself... I have X51 Headers w/ AWE Cats & Mufflers. I feel like I have lost a little low-end torque, and with research I found out what I felt was right.

Short tube & large diameter headers are designed to help you on the high-end power, with a little sacrifice of the low-end. On the other hand long tube (equal length) & small diameter headers are designed to help on the low-end, with a little sacrifice of the high-end power.

I will be upgrading to AWE Equal Length Headers next week.

 

Hmm, so I may lose 0-60 it seems from what you wrote by changing to X51 headers. It seems the exhaust mod that improves performance and sound without losing anything is the CATS.

 

Just a quick note here, slightly off topic.

The statement above does reveal the general skepticism the market has for the power claims coming from the tuners.

However, we have a strict policy of only posting carefully controlled and repeatedly verified results, no matter how high or "low" they may be.

Therefore, there is no need to take our results with a grain of salt. If we were willing to "adjust" our results, we certainly would have inflated the numbers from our 3.6l system higher.

And notice that at this time we are making no power claims on some of our 997.2 products due to our rigorous testing. In fact, the factory ECU is the limiting factor there...

Back on topic, and thanks for reading my lecture.

 

I think this is a prime example why you need to look at the entire system instead of the individual parts. I'm speculating that the combination of X51 headers design and AWE cats/mufflers made his system a little too free flowing resulting in more gains higher-end and a slight loss lower end. I think it is a smart choice for him to switch and get the entire system as it was intended from AWE. I can tell you with my X51+PSE+stock CATs, I don't feel like I lost anything and the car is plenty quick. I'd bet some money if I threw on the 200 cell CATs I'd lose some low-end torque but gain high-end power.

 

Not exactly, I don't believe you'll loose any time of 0-60. You just might have lower torque between 3,500 & less RPMs (not sure about where exactly but in the low-end of the torque curve). Which is mostly used in daily driving...

 

Yes, I forgot to comment on this. The torque is not really 'lost' it is shifted and hopefully increased in the higher levels. In a 0-60 run you will go through the entire range of rpms so you will not lose time and may in fact gain a slight advantage. Now 0-20 is another story...

 

Todd I commend you on your honesty that's why I mentioned you guys specifically. I feel on the 3.6L 997.1 you do the exhaust for the sound more than the performance aspect for me at least. I in no way meant to shed a bad light on your products. I always felt your testing was very good as even your headers for the 997S (.1) you show only 7rwhp but a slight loss in low end tq. (a few lbs) over the non header exhaust setup which included the cats and mufflers.

BTW, for the rest of you guys..I felt no low end tq. loss at all with my setup which includes the X51 headers , AWE cats and my Borlas. If anything I felt I gained..there is no hole in the powerband at all.

Dave

 

+1 on AWE. They are a top quality vendor you can trust.

I am somewhat surprised that Sin911 can feel the loss as well as it should be minimal. Perhaps he has a ton of seat time and knows his car intimately. When I upgraded to the X51 headers I only had 1000 miles on the car (break-in miles) so I really didn't have a good feel of what it was like before the change.

 

Dave, I actually did feel a little loss in between 2,400-3,200 RPMs after I added the AWE Cats & Mufflers to my X51 Headers... The torque felt a little flat in between...

 

My 911 is my only car so it is driven every day I am pretty intimate with my car Also I drive my car in traffic a lot leading to this assumption in low-end torque loss.

After this feeling, I went back to AWE's website to look at their dyno charts again which proved my butt-dyno feel That means my dyno is pretty sensitive

 

I am helping to direct this thread a little off topic, but I just want to echo the positive comments for A.W.E I ordered their full exhaust system in early January, when the holiday special as still going on (extended I think). I got everything in a little over a week which was a pleasant surprise. They even sent me a little e-mail informing me that due to the success of the holiday specials, my system may take a few weeks to arrive. I wish more aftermarket companies did that.

Anyway, I did a fairly detailed write-up with pics on my cardomain page. Here is the link:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3362996/4

The entire system is of the highest quality and, at least in my opinion, a work of art.