Hi All,

New to the threads, and looking for some for general input about possibly purchasing an '05 997.

I've budgeted approx 45 - 50K for a 'new' car - and my first option was definitely a 997. After reading up all over the net about RMS & IMS failures - complete engines needing to be swapped - I have been a bit deterred - as I simply cannot afford to replace a whole engine one of these should something fail.

That being said, I've only decided to go for a CPO Porsche. I've looked into CPO porsches on porsche.com and can get a CPO'ed 05 997, in my range, but it comes at the expense of having 2-3 previous owners, and likely between 30 - 40K miles. If the car is CPO-ed, should I be deterred by a car having 3 previous owners in just a 5 year span?

Given my budgetary constraints and low tolerance for risk associated, my question is would anyone here unbiasedly recommend a '06 Z06 over the '05 997? - on sheer reliability at that price point, not on performance, interior quality, etc.

The Porsche was and is my first option, but the Z06 seems to have a better engine build quality, more peace of mind - but a Porsche is a Porsche.

Also, on a side note, how much room do you guys think there is negotiate on a CPO porsche - i'm guessing 2-3K to get into the range of - KBB + 2K for the extended warranty?

I'm looking a car for long term here.

I know this is primarily a porsche thread, but hoping I can get some unbiased opinions here?

Thanks in advance!!

 

Have you put any thought into a 996 Turbo? They us the same engine block porsche has been using for decades in the air cooled stuff. Very durable and capable of making much more power than a N/A 997

 

Mh when I was last year browsing for a 911. I also noticed that a lot cars have more than 2 owners.
However I bought a CPOed 2005 Carrera with 22.000 mls for under 45.000$ incl. tax.

I think you should get in your price range even an CPOed S. Under 50k are also some 2007 normal Carrera to get.

Within your budget you should definitly get something!

 

With all of the parameters and limitations you've thrown out, it's like comparing a fish and a bicycle.
A Corvette is fundamentally a bulletproof car and I am a big fan of them but continue to pass on purchasing one until they dramatically improve the steering feel and the interior. Like a Porsche, it will suffer a bunch of minor annoyances, but unlike a Porsche, the cars bits and pieces will, um, degrade with heavy use. Rattles, interior wear and such.
The Porsche on the other hand has the potential for long-term love. With proper close care and feeding it can be a joy for an indefinite period.
My personal feeling is that if you aren't comfortable with the financial risk of the failure of any part of your car, you should not buy it. Too much stress worrying about every little sound or the risk history as some have cited it. Financial comfort and safety is a higher calling than fun with sports cars.
All that said, I and many others feel that the IMS failure percentages are overblown. I don't believe that anyone has accurate data on the failure/risk rate. But if you spend time thinking about it, and are concerned about finances, I'd just pass.

 

Porsche was just in the news for winning some sort of reliability award...search the forums and you'll find a link.

Also, don't know about you, but I always take my cars to the dealer for service. I've had experience with buying an expensive car from Ford, expecting quality service on par with my purchase, only to receive Taurus or K-car quality service. I expect it's due to the profit margin being higher for Porsches, the dealers make more money, and can afford to give a higher quality service...on par with the types of vehicles they sell. I guess what I'm trying to say, is don't expect to buy a 50-60k Corvette and get commensurate service. Chevy is just not set up to offer the surroundings/service of a luxury brand, bottom line. Just my thoughts/opinions.

Of course, your milage may vary and dealers will vary...as with everything else under the sun.

J

 

+1 !!!!!

 

You can find a nice '05 997S in your range. Don't be afraid of IMS, it's very rare, and Porsche NA seems to be stepping up to the plate recently when these do occur. RMS is common in early model build '05's, it's about a $1,200 fix.

I can't really compare a Z06 to a 997S, they're just so different.
CATTMAN

 

Wow, Thanks for the quick feedback!!

Just to clarify one thing - i'm comfortable with the repairs, just not comfortable with the idea of a buying a new engine after my two CPO expires :S

If its just the RMS issue - i'm really okay with that, I didnt know it was about $1200 to repair. The way some of the threads are posted - posters make it sound like they needed whole engine replaced.

To the question about the 996 Turbo - CPO'ed ones seem well above my price range. And I would like to CPO - being new to Porsches n all. Need the peace of mind.

Two other follow-ups - should i be comfortable with higher mileage cars - if IMS hasnt crept up, it likely wont happen - or can it occur anytime? Is IMS co-related to driving the car very hard - and tracking frequently? (or is it just one of those freak things that come out of no-where?)


Thanks again!! Really appreaciate the feedback!

 

In my opinion it's worth the extra 5K to shop for an 06. Every penny you save going into the car when accepting high miles, a painted panel, no cpo , a track history, over rev data add up to two things -- DOUBT and UNCERTAINTY with how much you will spend in terms of time and money.

Get the right car out of the gate . That means either waiting till you feel more confortable or digging deeper into purchase price.

 

Rucyco,

Is your budget the "out-the-door" price?

Because if you're just talking about the price of the vehicle itself, you can get an '06 or if you get lucky, an '07 Carrera CPO for that budget.

I'm sure markets are different everywhere, but here in California, I had my search narrowed down to 2 cars - an 07 C4 and an 07 C2, both CPOs (and both more than 100 miles from where I live). I negotiated both cars down to about 49K. They had 25,000 and 30,000 miles, respectively. I went with the C2 (it had the options I wanted and I don't really need the four-wheel drive here in dry Cali) and brought it home just last Friday. With taxes it was 54k out the door.

Remember that CPO warranties only last for a total of 6 years from the date of the original purchase. So buying an '05 CPO is kind of a waste... '05's are usually purchased in late '04. So that means the warranty is only good until the end of this year. You're paying a premium for very little coverage.

I'm just like you in that I'm very risk averse when it comes to buying high-end vehicles. But I don't have the money (well, maybe I have the money but not really the desire) to purchase a $95,000, brand-new car. So IMO, a CPO is the way to go. And if you go '06 or '07, you won't have to worry about the RMS/IMS issues.

You don't necessarily have to deal with the burden of the financial risk of your car falling apart, if you make a factory warranty a priority. For me, my plan is to ride the car until the warranty runs out, which will be in about 3 years. Then sell it! If you calculate it out with a reasonable projected selling price of your car in 3 years, the entire experience comes at a cost of less than half the price of a 3 year lease on a Carrera. And if I still haven't gotten my Porsche fix by then, I'll trade up for a used PDK, which will hopefully be around $50,000 by then.

I basically just went through exactly what you're going through now. And believe me, when I was driving the beauty home from the dealership, you can see from my ear-to-ear smile that it was all worth it.

 

First, congrats on your upcoming purchase and being in a position to do so. Also, good for you to know your budget and to stick to it.

With that said, I think you have a lot of homework to do. Here's why I say this:

* A concern you have is about the "engine blowing up" and having to replace the engine. This is not a likely concern and so it leads me to believe you're not up to speed on how to perform proper due diligence on a Porsche before you buy it.
* You'd even consider a Vette (a great car) over a Porsche (your preferred car) based on similar logic (or lack) above.
* You're asking about KBB values with respect to negotiation price. Bad. You need to know auction pricing on these cars to negotiate with the dealer.

So here are my unbiased opinions:
* Re-evaluate your budget. Make sure it's not too high or too low for what you want.
* Based on your budget, pick which type of car you want (Porsche or Vette, etc.).
* Get recent Manheim pricing on your car.
* Once you selected a car, perform PPI from independent dealer. Also give the VIN to another Porsche dealer and ask them to run a warranty and service history on the car. Run a carfax for good measure.
* Only after you feel comfortable with the car, make an offer based on a function of Manheim pricing.
* If accepted, have the dealer run all of the paper work ready to be signed, and drive/fly to see and drive your car in person before you sign and give check.

Have fun with the hunt!

 

I have a 2005. It is a wonderful car. I have read every post regarding IMS and it is extremely rare. Our local dealer (Sunset) has never replaced an engine in a 997 due to IMS failure. Ever.

If you purchase the 2005, get it inspected and check for over-revving. If the car has been abused and the engine fails the dealer will not help. Abuse can cause premature failure in any car: Porsche, Corvette, Lambo... It does not matter.

The 2005 is not cursed, do not buy into the claim that it is likely the IMS assembly will fail.

Also, the replacement RMS seal will fix the RMS problem. The replacement part is an updated and more robust version. Sunset swapped mine out while the car was under warranty. They also checked the IMS for any play/wear while the engine was split.

On the Corvette topic: If the car is a long term purchase, you should look at ten year old 911s and ten year old Corvettes. Does one seem dated? How do you feel they held up in terms of wear, fit and finish, paint, leather, etc? These are subjective things best answered by you. In the long run, you will be happy you figured out the facts and made a personal decision on what direction to take. I am pretty sure everyone here will point you in the direction of the 911, as we all faced the same decision.

On the other hand consider this: I had an engine failure in an NSX, arguably the most reliable exotic(ish) car in the world. The car was well cared for, never raced or tracked, and ran perfectly until it just went. A piston decided to break apart. It was unexpected and harsh. I found a used replacement engine from a NSXPrime member and moved forward. There are no long term guarantees on cars. Parts fail, and replacement can be a huge burden.

I hope this helps...

B

 

It's really amazing that you can get all this great advice on this forum... And it seems that everyone really takes the time to give thoughtful answers/opinions. I'm totally new to this but I'm hooked.

FYI, I've received a couple of private messages, but I'm unable to reply just yet. I think I need another 5 posts or so... Kind of a stupid rule, huh?

 

911Rookie- I was in your boat not too long ago. I also looked into a CPO, but decided to get the best car I could find with the most research done, and contrary to what alot of members think...my solution was a third party warranty.

Regardless if I use it or not , I have some piece of mind to back me up.

 

so how do you get a Manheim price if you do not have an AuctionACCESS membership card?