Nicely put BW

 

....No, just its a 997 with an Aero Package...right?

 

True, w/o the 3.8 notation. Thats the op's question. Good answer.

 

Here's an even better idea: Forget the wing and invest in a weekend at Porsche Driving Experience. You'll get a pic of yourself on the track with Hurley Haywood as a graduation certificate. How cool and meaningful is that?

 

Gpjli,

You're being kind of harsh dude... I asked for opinions, got them, already said I planned to fill it in... Its an added expense to fill it in, I was just trying to save a few bucks for the time being.

You seem to question whether I would "lie" about the size of my engine... you seem to condone calling me a "tool"... then you tell me to forget the wing and take driving lessons? Its my car and I'll do what I please, I already said I'm not into track days and have no plans to do such...

I'll be the first to admit that I got off to a rocky start here on this board about my comments regarding how my car got backed into, and I admit I came off like an a$$hole... that's water under the bridge now... these are just cosmetic mods for me to tie me over a couple years until my practice is paid off and I can buy a new Turbo S, after the warm welcome here by some of the guys I think I may just fit in better with the Lambo crowd, we're all Jackholes to begin with right? Maybe that Murcielago is in my future after all???


What the heck did I do to **** you off? Since my rocky start, I've tried to be positive and contribute here...

 

Easy Mark,

Don’t go off the deep end. Do you really want to sport gold chains and wear white leather loafers while driving around in a “Look at Me” Lime Green Cruiser?

Hell, you’ve have to unbutton your shirt, grow some chest hair and move to Long Island then....

 

Whoa! When you post on a board for opinions you will get them. You have mine. I have no idea why you are feeling shaky or what you are ranting about. Your car got hit? News to me. Don't know what a jackhole is or why you feel you need a Lambo or what you are practicing for. This is not a personal attack. Can't be because I don't know you. As for wings..IMO anything that upsets the function of the car, even if it's "only when you are going fast", is a mistake. Btw: the thing about "driving lessons" is funny. PDE is real good advise. Take it and thank me later.

 

Really? Long Island? C'mon. I think you have the Island and LA confused.

 

I was playing bad...my bad...I meant no offense...just didn't want MD to get/be bummed out.

 

Hey, no worries. As long as you don't confuse us with the Jersey Shore crowd. It is hard enough trying to live down the rep that Lindsay Lohan has built! LOL

MD should do what he wants to his car. I would fill in the 3.8 but that is just me. I do think that a PDE class would be a good investment for him even if he never tracks the car. Improving one's driving skills is always a sound investment, if only to make you a better driver on the street.

I have done the BMW class and I look forward to doing the PDE class in the near future.

 

Gpjli,

No worries friend... on an anonymous internet when you cant see a person nor hear the tone in their voice and all you have to go on is text before your eyes... it can sometimes be far too easy to read too much into one's message.

[shake]Sorry to have misinterpreted your opinion.[/shake]

 

Well, I am not a rocket scientist, but here is my take on the front vs rear...

First, there are a couple of data points that should be considered:

a) Porsche doesn't recommend doing just the rear wing on the factory aerokit, in fact, you can't buy just the rear part while you can buy the front part (bumper) by itself. I am not putting too much weight on the argument since they have a vested interest in selling $10,000 kits rather than $5,000 wings...

b) If you look hard enough, there are racing teams running rear wings without the front bumpers. They just add a splitter and they are fine and still competitive.

Now, from an aerodynamics perspective, there are really two factors that come in play with just putting on a rear wing. The first one is the down pressure applied by the additional surfaces in the back and that a bigger rear wing will just create more down pressure on the rear of the car, there is no denying that. But, you really have to take into consideration that there is currently a wing on your car... So, if we take for granted that the aerodynamics only come into play at higher speeds and that the existing spoiler is deployed. If the current retractable wing does maybe 100 lbs of pressure and the new one does 250 lbs (just pulling numbers out of my behind here), it is really only a 150lbs difference, which is not as bad as 250lbs would be...

The second factor is the angle of attack change created by the added pressure in the back... If you put an extra 150 lbs in the back, and do no other changes, you are changing the angle of penetration of the car through the air, effectively becoming "nose up". This will create an added uplift force on the front of the car and it will either slow you down or pull the front of the car up, making the steering lighter.

Personally, I suspect that, at lower speeds - since a car, even at 200mph is not _that_ fast aerodynamically - the second factor is much more of an issue than the first one. Basically, it is a flat bottomed car and it needs to be kept level to be efficient through the air. The bottom of the car is also a much larger surface than the rear wing. But, I also believe that, with the wing in the back, and under hard acceleration at top speed, the weight transfer of the car, plus the added wing pressure, added to the nose lift, can create the perfect storm (it is a rear biased car to start with) and hence, give a little wiggle in the front... One thing you have to remember though is that at that point, on the track, you should be in a straight line, so how much of that would translate in an actual loss of car control is up for grabs.

Now that we have established the problem, there are really three ways to solve that imbalance:

1) Add a front wing, and when I mean front wing, I mean something rigid enough to take the 150lbs of pressure we also put in the back (again using theoretical numbers). In Porsche 997 world, that would be a bumper. I have not had the time to closely look at all the different bumbers with measuring instruments but I suspect that the aero bumpers have different angles built into their surfaces to create more downward pressure to balance the rear wing.

2) You can reduce the amount of air coming under the car an pushing it up. First, this can be done by lowering the car: you can lower the car altogether or you could lower the front a little more to compensate for the wing in the back - but that brings other issues, so let's say we want to keep the car level, which brings us to a second way of reducing the amount of air: it can also be done by adding a "front lip". Off course the front lip is not solid enough to create a lot of down pressure but is can certainly help reduce the amount of air coming under the car!

For all these reasons, if I was to add a rear wing, I personally do not think I am fast enough to require a new bumper. I would, however, think about a lip because of the looks and also because it may help my conscience, just a little bit...

The aerodynamics of a car are very complex; in F1 racing they even look at tire threads because they also play a role - so, if you were to put a wing in the back, and slicks in the front, what would we get here... mmmhhhhhhh...

Just my 0.02,

T.

 

Message board communication is tough for the reasons you mention. Emoticons help a bit. Lots of good info here but things like wings, wheels, colors really are to the individuals taste. Sometimes the boards seem to get bogged down with that kind of stuff. You can ask but don't expect the "right" answer. I do follow the idea that "form should follow function" when it comes to mods. But I'm an old guy

 

Not only does it improve skills but it gives you a great sense of Porsche history. You get to rub shoulders with a group of some of the greatest competitive drivers that ever came down the pike. The museum is awesome. Burmingham was a tough track for me. Very extreme changes of elevation sent bad messages to my stomach. And then there's the hot laps. Makes you realize how slow you really are. LOL Not to be missed imo.

 

Perhaps this summer.