Since I read all the posts about M3 vs 997s on the M3 forum, I was curious what the Porsche guys have to say about this topic.

With the '05-07 997 S coming down in price ($45-55K), I'm very tempted in making the switch to the Stuttgart camp. I visited a local dealer that had a 28K mile '06 997 S 6MT with an aerokit today and took her out for a spin and this was what I found:

Immediately I noticed that the clutch is much heavier than the M3. The clutch pedal travel is very short but very manageable in traffic, asides from its stiffness. The shifter was light, precise, and short in throws. It did not have the notchiness that is typical of BMW cars.

In traffic, the Porsche seemed to tug along very nicely in surface speeds, much better than my M3. I'm looking at the torque figures and when the torque comes on, despite it being similar, I felt the power to be more linear and less rowing of the gears (possibly a gearing ratio difference?). I find myself revving the M3 in order to coax the power.

At low speed, the suspension is bone jarring but at the same time its appreciated at illegal speeds. The car had the sport chrono so I wasn't sure what the default setting was on the PASM. But overall the ride was a bit harsh/punishing; found the car making loud thwack sounds quite often (kind like the sound when you hit a pothole).

The cornering was superb, extremely flat and well planted. The steering was communicative and rewarding when a quick opposite lock is required. The car is nimble and exhibited barely any body roll. I'm sure the handling prowess is aided by its very low stance; it is however difficult to make a graceful exit from the vehicle.

The only thing I gave the P car down in points, and these are major points, is the top end power. I felt the car couldn't accelerate at high speeds as fast as the M3 could. I believe the pre 997.2 S has 355hp compared to the 414hp on the M3. I didnt think the difference would be as pronounced since the 997 is much lighter but I was wrong. I was dropping gears (down to 4th) on the highway to see how fast the car could pull. I would say the M3 clearly wins the high-speed overtaking ability.

I was excepting the 997S to blow the M3 out of the water, embarrass the BMW, but I have my reservations now. The 997 unfortunately cant be the jack of all trades cause it lacks a proper boot and any cargo space. Despite my M3 being a serious porkier, but its nice to know I can seat four if I needed to (which is never) and I can transport my road bike to races.

I guess you can compare the 911s to a samurai sword; precise and lethal in execution, rewarding to those that can wield it properly. And the M3 is a swiss army knife; excellent at multi tasking, just as potent in its various facets.

It has been my dream to drive a P-car (the GT3 will be the ultimate goal). Help me justify the switch. Any feedback will be appreciated.

 

You seem to have sorted out the differences between the cars pretty well. I have had a few M3s and an M5(e39) and I liked them a lot. I think when you find the need to get your next BMW, that's when you will have a problem - they just aren't making them the driver's car they used to be - although the M3 still seems to be hanging in there for now.

There's no real justifying a switch - if you want to do it, then you do - simple as that. And if you have always wanted a 911, at some point you'll want to scratch that itch. After having 400HP of BMW though, you may want to hold out for 997.2, at least. My 997.2 is not a let down and is surely the fastest car I have ever owned. Although I still miss that M5 - what a beast it was (at the time).

 

You're correct in your assessment. My 997S however is modified so I think the power is slightly better than my 2008 M3 in all gears. My M3 is my daily driver and is about perfect in that role except for gas mileage and the small tank. I think it really comes down to if you're tired of your M3 and looking for a change then you'll love the 997. However, if you really need a daily hauler that can seat 4 comfortably with a decent size trunk then keep the M3 - can't beat its power and functionality.

 

I have a similar (but not identical) opinion and want to bring up things swhich you didn't mention . To preface my reply I did have an 05 , 07 , and currently have an 09 997S . I also have an 08 M3 .

Much of your post focused on the driving differences based on your test drive but there is much more to consider . The M3 is an ideal daily driver . It has interior space (you did mention it) , better sound system and techno gadgets, and comfort. It's trunk is in the rear making for easy grocery getting . It doesn't stand out much because it shares similar cousin lineage to an ordinary 3 series which makes it more stealth to theives or vandals if parked in a public lot. In short it's practical. It drives quite well for what it offers .

On the other hand the 997S doesn't have that knarly V8 but it does have finesse and refinement that you do mention. The "thwack" sound does not sound normal and might be an issue with the specific car that you drove. You also described the BMW gearbox as "notchy " . I feel the lever is ill positioned and I prefer to call it downright sloppy .

I do feel the two cars behave very differently in how they corner . The 911 feels like its being pushed with the light front end left for steering . The M3 on the other hand has that heavy front engine and most drivers are more accustomed to that .
Since i have always owned both as far back as i can remember I feel pretty much as though I am fluent in two languages but some drivers have discussed that they had to adjust when transitioning.

I also feel a lot of what you want in the 997.1 is actually present in the 997.2 S . It's faster, more immediate in response , and more connected to the road. It also has the gadgets found in the M3 . It will never have the space or some of the practical features .. but after reading your post .. I think an 09 - present car might be the better step .

You still have warranty , free service, and time is on your side .

 

If I didn't pick up my 997.1, I would have picked up an BMW M3 for all the reasons mentioned on this thread - I also have a number of road bikes. I really do want to drive the current MY with the PDK and increased HP and I know it will be a blast. However, I'm partial to the air cooled versions and may move that direction. Give the PDK a try and report your thoughts. I believe the current MY answers your reservations on the HP issues. I sat in rare traffic today and the clutch action started to wear on me - more reasons to go PDK. Good Luck - you have time.

 

I have an 07 997 aero that I bought new. I like it, but it is an extra car for me and not a daily driver. I wanted the M3 back in 05, 06, and 07. They were re-designing the model, I got impatient and I ended up buying a 997. I have 3 other BMW's presently and really like every one of them a lot. I am not a specs kind of guy and I am not a racer or track guy. I just own them and drive them (going to work, hardware store, grocery store, etc. I could just as easily own a mini van). The BMW's are more refined and easier to get in and out of. The dealerships are more plentiful, there are zillions of em on the road. And if you travel, there is always a dealership a stones throw away (I have personal experience with this). I think that I am less particular (who works on it) about service with the BMW's. I just don't trust anybody to work on the Porsche, which is kind of a pain when you really think about it.

I always wanted a Porsche and I'm glad that I have a chance to own one. The resale value of both stinks. But I kinda knew going in that I would be throwing good money away.

I like my Porsche as a second vehicle. If I was forced to go down to one vehicle, I would be keeping one of the bimmers. And hopefully I will never have to make that choice. I do not plan on selling the Porsche and she is not for sale.

Just providing honest feedback. Good luck with your decision. If you can, you may want to own one, just for the experience. Many on this forum will not drive anything else.

Since I am going to be judged, more information about me: I really like runflats on the bimmers. I don't know the 'e' designation of my bimmers. I keep a spare in my 997 and am kind of bummed out about the lack of storage space in the 997 because of the spare. Oh, and I plug my tires (myself) instead of buying a new tire every time I get a puncture.

 

I've owned E46 M3 and E60 M5. Now in a 997.1, I get all the attention both at car shows and while driving around town. Once you go Porsche, you'll never go back.

 

The M3 is a very nice 2 door sedan, the C2S is a sports car. The Porsche is the benchmark for all manufactures, and has very unique driving characteristics with it's rear engine. The longer you own one, the more you understand when and where to use the power. I would not trade it for any car, way too much fun to give up.

Tough call, good luck with your desicion.

Ed

 

Ditto. There are precious few cars left that truly qualify as sports cars. I doubt I'll ever part with my 997 except perhaps for another 997. To the OP, if you need an every day grocery and bike hauler, then the 997 is somewhat limiting, although less-so than it appears. I've stuffed mine full when I've had to.
But on every other front, handling, breaking, steering feel, power, on and on, it's simply untouchable. I also cannot comment on the differences between the .1 (such as mine) and the .2's (which do sound like they are significantly improved) but I don't miss having more gadgets, a better stereo. They are nice-to-have's, but while other manufacturers are forced to differentiate in their dashboard electronics, Porsche continues to differentiate via the fundamental working of the car.

 

Thanks everyone for your contribution to the thread.

I'm glad I'm correct with my assessment; I feared I might have left something out. I definitely agree owning Porsche is more prestigious than a BMW since it does come from better pedigree (hopefully VW won't ruin this). *Cough, but the E92 M3 did win 24hrs of Nurburgring last yr and BMW powered cars took 1 and 2 in the 24hrs of Daytona; Porsche better answer back.

I would however disagree that a M3 fails to stand out as much as a Porsche 911 (unless its Turbo or GT2/3). I understand the M3 shares similar traits with its lower 3series brethren. However, car enthusiasts such as us know a cars potential by looking at its model. I hate to say it, but a Carrera without an Aerokit package looks sterile and pedestrian like. The body lines of the 911 is smooth and flowing, very gentle to the eye. It lacks the gaping mouth of the M3 front bumper, its flared fenders, its power dome hood with vents, and very aggressive rocker panels. It doesn't take a lot to make the M3 look aggressive since its already prepacked straight from the dealer for you.

My expectation for the 911 is not for it to be a do-it-all; I appreciate how its perfected its skill to be a true sports car. It amazes me how the 911 doesn't put on weight after all these years unlike all the other cars. I'm glad Porsche got the 911 recipe right and has adhered to it; refusing to compromise and conform to industry trend.

For now, I have ruled out the idea of a 997.1S. Maybe in a year, I'll get into a 997.2S with the 385hp or possibly an used 997 GT3.

Just curious, but maybe I have to post in the 993 form, but what are the 997 drivers take on a 993 C2S? I know its signficiantly down on power compared to the M3 but I dont care (I smile everytime I take my 150hp 240z out for a drive). I know a few of the members are deflecting from 997 and getting into a 993. There is just something about the 993...

 

The title says "debate" --

1) Car enthusiasts were not the concern of my point. I realize they know what an M3 is . Theives and vandals notice a Porsche a lot quicker than an M3 .

2) I actually like the lines of the Porsche 911 . In fact the thing i don't like about the M3 is the silly bump on the hood and the pumped up fenders . My first thought was that it looked like a sophisticated Mustang with those features.

3) When Porsche developed the Gt3 (unlike the M3) they made the aerokit like a work of art . BMW looks more like they took a 328i and fed it some spinach .

I have mixed sentiment on the M3 because there are so many good points too.
Whatever mixed feelings i have with the Porsche isn't so much about the car itself .

As for the 993 -- amazing car . I had both a C2S and a Turbo. The Turbo in its time was the most incredible machine at that price level . It's classic but its not modern and sadly it's not that fast or agile compared to current porsches . Yet the air cooled sound, offset pedals, and 1960's classic dash with 5 distinct dials just warms up so many fond memories of a car that i think is a Porsche 911 icon .

 

Having owned both, at least in my area of the country, it is not the same thing. I wish it were really - the 911 stigma is what it is and the average person does not distinguish models - they simply see a 911 or BMW. Makes no sense sometimes, but.... I wish I could go places in my 911 and be as under the radar as I was in my M3 / M5 - but it just isn't so. Maybe Cali is different.

993 is a classic car now - I love the styling, but I think a car that old is a labor of love - takes a different type owner. I wish I were that guy, but I am not. Maybe you are, with the 240Z - kudos to you. I have 993 envy every time I see one.

 

Dont get me wrong, I love the look of the of the 911; is iconic in its shape and its been like that for decades now. Just saying I appreciate the wilder more aggressive widebody fender flares (its a sport car right?) and the crazy coffee table/whale spoiler from the 930/964/993. The 997 in standard trim isnt enough; too feminine IMO. But the aerokit is beautiful; hence why I want a GT3 so badly. In this instance, instead of spinach porsche fed it some foie gras n caviar (high class, expensive option).

 

I'm right with you on the Gt3 .
It's not just beautiful , it's the last of the pure Gt1 dry sump engine and an amazing car.

To go from an M3 to a Gt3 .. I won't disagree but you may want to keep the M3 (or get a second car) though . The idea of parking a new Gt3 at the movies, mall , or supermarket sounds challenging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXFEk2zuuzM

ok 1 more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm_Az0xj1OM&NR=1

and if you twist my arm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zy8A_vb4uU

 

but if you consider still making the move I would go with an 09 or better for sure. I have very little experience in the 997.1 but I have driven one briefly back to back with my 997.2 and there is a noticeable difference in performance.

I think the .2 is more fun than the M3 and a bit faster if you are just going for pure emotion


I agree with you on the GT3, the only thing that stops me is the you can not fit a backseat, if you could I would already own it.