Comments like this make me laugh!

Did you even read the whole thread? He bought a USED exhaust, OUT of warranty, on a USED car....and we repaired it for free for him. You really think we should have covered every expense in this case??

Funny that you mention Sharkwerks....as Alex and the gang are probably our largest US Tubi dealer and have happily installed Tubi systems for years.

 

Got the exhaust out - easy enough to do. Cracks much worse at the top of the muffler where I couldn't see it on the car. Word of warning - this went from a slight buzz early last week to intolerable today. When they go - they go in a hurry. If I waited much longer it could be a more difficult repair.

As a point of reference - these cracks are around the pipe going to the exhaust tips - not the pipe coming from the cat. I though this was interesting b/c I could see how the cracks could develop on the pipe from the cat if the exhaust wasn't installed/aligned correctly (although it doesn't look like there would be many ways to screw up the install). This wouldn't be the case with the pipe going to the exhaust tips - that pipe doesn't attach to anything else on the car. Basically free floating.

I'll run it over to my buddy's factory in the morning and see what his guys say about welding it. They may have some ideas to reinforce the area or possible figure out some support system to tie the two pipes together.

 

^^ That's a material issue. Ridiculous. The only hope for Tubi is that's a problem they've sorted in current production products.

 

I had Tubi on my 2009 Carrera S for 2 years and lots of track time and the brackets that are welded on started to crack and fall off. I did not have any issues with the mufflers themselves. I sold the Tubi (cheap) to a local guy and he fixed them up on a polish wheel and re-welded the brackets and then he sold them.
I've known other to have Tubi and have never really heard of any issues with Tubi until this thread. Tom and the guys at Champion are good people so I'm sure they will do what they can to help out with any after warranty issues.

I had Fabspeed before that from 2006-2008 with zero issues and I currently have a M&M from FVD system on my GTS.

 

Tom - I understand that you are limited to the warranty offered by the manufacturer and in these cases you did help these guys out by welding their systems back together. I can't help but wonder why these issues are happening though. In my opinion, it appears to be a materials issue.

As a consumer that is in the market for an aftermarket enhanced exhaust system, these material issues are of concern to me as is the limited 2 year warranty.

My concerns are not really with Champion, but with Tubi directly. If their product is so impressive, why is their warranty so minimal in comparison to others? Given the issues from this thread and the limited 2 year warranty, i can't help but be swayed away from Tubi.

*If* these issues are indeed so rare and Tubi stood behind their product with a better warranty, it would be a totally different experience. Tubi would be gaining reputation instead of losing it. Just my opinion.

I'm one person. Tubi was on top of my list. Now it's on the bottom. Maybe i'm the only one.

 

I'm not really sure what I can say about that....other then point out that it seems coincidental that each one of the mufflers in this thread which did have an issue was purchased prior to 2007 (and manufactured prior to Champion becoming the NA importer in late 2006). That makes each one of these mufflers more or less 6 years old. Perhaps the process changed, maybe they changed material suppliers, or maybe they simply got a bad batch of aluminum sheets back in 2006. I just don't know. But to say that Tubi is either flawed in their design or manufacturing process would be a complete exaggeration simply because of the sheer volume of product they sell which has zero issues at all.

As I said before, we have sold literally 1000's of Tubi mufflers over the years, not only for Porsche but also Ferrari, Lambo, Audi, Maserati, etc....and I can honestly say that we SO rarely ever see issues like this. Their build process and quality control is second to none, which is why they were chosen to be an OEM manufacturer for Ferrari/Maserati.

We support the product in every way that we possibly can. In these particular cases however, we simply can't do what the current owners ask of us. Still...we've extended offers to each of them to help, within what we felt was reasonable given the circumstances. Hopefully, that in itself can restore some confidence for you.

 

Point taken and understood.
I still can't help but wonder if their build process and quality control is second to none, then why is their warranty only 2 years?

 

Echoing Elusive - I have no problem with Champion. Tom has gone out of his way offering support for a product they didn't even sell. They are definitely a top-notch operation.

Tom - aren't these exhausts stainless not aluminum?

Sure my exhaust is 6 years old. In the first 4 years the car did 1200 miles. In the next 2+ it's done roughly 20,000. The exhaust failed with 21K miles? Car lived entirely in South Florida until April of 2012 - so it hasn't even seen any salt/snow!

This isn't a good sign for Tubi. Between the 2 threads there have been more than a couple failures - there are surely a lot more. I would guess a fraction actually post on a forum. I'm also not overly impressed with the reference to exotic Italian marques. Those cars are hardly driven compared to Porsches and aren't built to be as reliable/durable. It could also be possible the flaw is specific with their design for the 997.1 exhaust and not all their exhausts.

The Tubi sure is pretty and sounds good - but in my experience it isn't durable - at least not for a daily driver. If you have a garage queen that you barely drive it might be a good option. Maybe we need a high mileage Tubi poll ...... I sure wouldn't ever buy one based on this experience.

On the plus side - I've got nothing but positive things to say about Champion.

 

Yes, they are 100% stainless.

And to answer to Elusive's point about the warranty...we believe it's a competitive warranty. It's longer then some other Porsche exhaust manufacturers, and shorter then others. But it's what we believe is a fair time period.

And yes mb230s...that isn't a lot of mileage. But it's a muffler. It's holding a 5lb tip in the air at the back of the car, getting hot and cold, hot and cold. Kids in parking lots could be stepping on it, the previous owner could have backed it into a curb 10 times.....you get the idea. It's subject to way too much abuse which can't be accounted for.

I've extended the offer to help. I'm not sure what else I can say on this subject at this point.

 

Ill start, i have a Tubi System on my 04 C4S that was purchased from Champion Motorsport in OCT 2008 since then i have put over 100,000km+ on my car.
Car is driven Daily Sun, Rain, Snow, Salt, Fog, Road Kills its seen it all.
No issues.
Coupled with Tubi Headers and Fabspeed Cat Pipes

 

Realizing it might be apples/oranges comparing Tubi to the Porsche warranty but wouldn't the original exhaust be covered for something like 8 years...at least here in the USA?

I agree completely - which is why it should have been designed to be tougher. I would argue that one of it's main purposes is to hold that "5lb" tip in the air and not break! I think like many things Italian it was designed more for style than function.

In the 10,000+ miles I put on the car I can guarantee none of this happened. But yes, it's possible but doubtful and no evidence to indicate that. It probably would have broken much quicker in my tenure had any of that been true.

Tom - I've got nothing but positives to say about you and Champion. I don't expect you to cover something that is outside of the warranty period that you never even sold! The offer to weld it up for me says a lot and I appreciate that. I just happen to be lucky enough to have a connection that could weld it same day at his factory where he has guys welding stainless all day every day. All I had to do was buy lunch and give his welder $20.

Tubi - another story. I'm not impressed. Maybe they changed the design, maybe there was a soccer match the night before, maybe they got a bad batch of 304, maybe it was bad filler rod, who knows.....but my exhaust isn't a well made product especially for the price. I didn't notice this but even the welds around the pipe had cracks - not just the steel around the pipe. The guy that fixed it said overall the welds weren't very good. He also was surprised they used that thin of material.

So here's the fix -
- welded all the cracks
- added some additional stainless supports

It's much stronger than before. I'm also going to add a high temp shim of some type between the two pipes (where I'm holding the pen) and a stainless steel clamp. This should better support the exhaust tip that clearly seems to be an issue for Tubi. (I didn't want to weld this b/c I'll lose any adjustment of the exhaust tips.)

Should have it on tonight. Will be nice to have it fixed. Guessing it is a matter of time before the other side fails. Hopefully the shim/clamp which I'll do to both sides may prevent that.

 

Bottom line, the only Italian part correct for a German car should be sitting in the passenger seat! Like the Italian chick in my avatar.

Cargraphic = German = lifetime warranty = superior!!! Nuff said

 

mb,

I can't help but notice that the lip and bottom side of the muffler (especially the third picture from your earlier post) looks like it was banged up at some point. If that was the case, perhaps the stress from the impact caused the cracks and separation of the weld.

Quite possible that the previous owner backed up into something and banged that one side. Two of the major features for the Tubi mufflers are 1. they're incredibly light and 2. with such a light muffler, one can expect no drone. So, for these reasons, I would agree that they may be a little more delicate than stock and some other aftermarket cans, but like everything in life, you have to know what you're getting into and why.
I commend you for your ideas to strengthen and improve the product with your repair.
Best of luck and I'm sure you'll be pleased once you get the muffler back on your car and start driving it again.

 

^^ to me, those cracks look like fractures which have developed over time. They don't look like they were the result of an impact. Hot/cold cycles, stress, and fatigue. The material didn't cope well.

 

Not sure what you are seeing - probably a reflection. There isn't a scrape, ding, or dent on the exhaust from any type of impact. Would be pretty obvious with the high shine polish. The 3rd pic from my earlier post is also the high side of the muffler - not the lower portion. Nothing is getting up that high without leaving damage below.

Yes - exhaust is back on. Sounds great once again and not embarrassing to drive. Glad the exhaust is simple to work on with these cars. Probably had it installed in under 20 minutes.

Treated the car with a wash after the repair. May have found a new favorite car wash place. After initially cleaning the rims they rolled the car forward to ensure the calipers were clean behind the spokes.