PSS Damptronics Mini Review (Street+Track+A Few Pics)
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PSS Damptronics Mini Review (Street+Track+A Few Pics)
I ordered my Bilstein PSS Damptronics from vividracing.com, Dan got everything shipped out very quickly and was a real pleasure to work with.
I got them installed at Precision Motorsports Racing in NJ and aligned close to the GT3RS spec. Ride height is 650 front and 660 rear, which I believe is measured to the bottom of the fender off of the wheel's center.
-1,25' front camber
-2,25' rear camber
* Most they could squeeze out without getting adjustable control arms or any other parts
Overall Impressions: The stiffness without the PASM enabled (PSS) is similar to the PASM enabled stiffness of the stock suspension. Personally on the stock suspension I found it to be too harsh to use it on the street as the car was very bouncy. In this case the stiffness is the same but the travel is much shorter as a result you dont notice it as much.
Highway Driving: On the highway the regular stiffness (PSS) feels fantastic, the car is very well planted and just feels great. There really is no point in enabling the stiffer setting. Going over some rough patches you get alot more feedback, but most highways are pretty decent in the US so its definitely a great DD if you got a lot of highway miles to work.
Street Driving (NYC): I will say that street driving is a bit more difficult. NYC probably has the worst roads in the country and you get everything from bumps to potholes, to god knows what else. I drove carefully before but drive even more carefully now. In most cases however I already know the best roads to take so it doesnt detract from the car's everyday usability, but if you drive consistently on ****ty roads I think it will wear you down. Additionally with my ground clearance being next to non-existent I'm alot more careful watching the road to make sure I dont run over anything I shouldnt.
Track: On the track the new setup is fantastic. I also got on a set of Toyo R888s and the car was amazingly well footed. I had a lot more confidence in every corner, the car had amazing grip and was completely transformed. I would say that with the suspension the way it is now, a GT3 wouldn't be gaining much in the corners.
Since this is only my third track day I would say that the suspension allows you to make more mistakes as it provides so much extra grip especially with the cup tires that you can just hug the apex longer. Anything short of going in too fast, or turning in too early, I feel the car provides more room for error and provides a great amount of feedback that I havent had any of those "Oh ****" moments. (*knock on wood*)
Sorry about the crappy pics, but I kept forgetting to take some pics while the car was in the pits waiting to go on track so I only have some paddock pictures. I'll try to get some better daylight pictures later and also show the clearance a bit better.
Track: Pocono double in-field.
I got them installed at Precision Motorsports Racing in NJ and aligned close to the GT3RS spec. Ride height is 650 front and 660 rear, which I believe is measured to the bottom of the fender off of the wheel's center.
-1,25' front camber
-2,25' rear camber
* Most they could squeeze out without getting adjustable control arms or any other parts
Overall Impressions: The stiffness without the PASM enabled (PSS) is similar to the PASM enabled stiffness of the stock suspension. Personally on the stock suspension I found it to be too harsh to use it on the street as the car was very bouncy. In this case the stiffness is the same but the travel is much shorter as a result you dont notice it as much.
Highway Driving: On the highway the regular stiffness (PSS) feels fantastic, the car is very well planted and just feels great. There really is no point in enabling the stiffer setting. Going over some rough patches you get alot more feedback, but most highways are pretty decent in the US so its definitely a great DD if you got a lot of highway miles to work.
Street Driving (NYC): I will say that street driving is a bit more difficult. NYC probably has the worst roads in the country and you get everything from bumps to potholes, to god knows what else. I drove carefully before but drive even more carefully now. In most cases however I already know the best roads to take so it doesnt detract from the car's everyday usability, but if you drive consistently on ****ty roads I think it will wear you down. Additionally with my ground clearance being next to non-existent I'm alot more careful watching the road to make sure I dont run over anything I shouldnt.
Track: On the track the new setup is fantastic. I also got on a set of Toyo R888s and the car was amazingly well footed. I had a lot more confidence in every corner, the car had amazing grip and was completely transformed. I would say that with the suspension the way it is now, a GT3 wouldn't be gaining much in the corners.
Since this is only my third track day I would say that the suspension allows you to make more mistakes as it provides so much extra grip especially with the cup tires that you can just hug the apex longer. Anything short of going in too fast, or turning in too early, I feel the car provides more room for error and provides a great amount of feedback that I havent had any of those "Oh ****" moments. (*knock on wood*)
Sorry about the crappy pics, but I kept forgetting to take some pics while the car was in the pits waiting to go on track so I only have some paddock pictures. I'll try to get some better daylight pictures later and also show the clearance a bit better.
Track: Pocono double in-field.
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HI,
I have the same suspension and I'm happy with it.
You should buy adjustable stabilizers, than you will find the difference.
Regarding the angles I have -1 degree on the front and -1,50 on the back.
With your numbers car will by very nervous, especially on cold tires.
Cheers,K
I have the same suspension and I'm happy with it.
You should buy adjustable stabilizers, than you will find the difference.
Regarding the angles I have -1 degree on the front and -1,50 on the back.
With your numbers car will by very nervous, especially on cold tires.
Cheers,K
Last edited by 997 GT3 RS/TT; Jun 21, 2008 at 10:01 AM.
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997 GT3 RS/TT: I think since Im a beginner I dont notice the rear being twitchy because Im driving at 5/10ths of what the car allows, but I'll keep it in mind. Im not familiar, what are adjustable stabilizers? What will they give me?
bbywu: Extremely happy
The car is still driveable everyday and it's a completely different car on the track. 100% worth it, couldn't be happier
bbywu: Extremely happy
The car is still driveable everyday and it's a completely different car on the track. 100% worth it, couldn't be happier
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Just got mine installed, also bought from Vivid Racing (thanks Dan for the excellent price and service, and the incredibly fast shipping!).
Agreed with your great review. Nothing comes free, one does feel the bumps more, but... boy this Bilstein coilover TRANSFORMED the character of the car. It feels less ponderous and so much more aggressive now. Much more like the GT2 that I test drove. The degree of pitch and roll has markedly improve as expected. To my surprise, the steering feel is also better, less "free play" when you roll steering wheel back and forth.
One question: Would you please confirm, the PASM setting doesn't affect dampening as much as with the stock unit? That is, with the stock unit, it's night and day when you push that PASM button: NORMAL is extremely soft and wallowing, and SPORT is extremely jittery and choppy. With the PSS10 the difference is not as much?
Agreed with your great review. Nothing comes free, one does feel the bumps more, but... boy this Bilstein coilover TRANSFORMED the character of the car. It feels less ponderous and so much more aggressive now. Much more like the GT2 that I test drove. The degree of pitch and roll has markedly improve as expected. To my surprise, the steering feel is also better, less "free play" when you roll steering wheel back and forth.
One question: Would you please confirm, the PASM setting doesn't affect dampening as much as with the stock unit? That is, with the stock unit, it's night and day when you push that PASM button: NORMAL is extremely soft and wallowing, and SPORT is extremely jittery and choppy. With the PSS10 the difference is not as much?
I ordered my Bilstein PSS Damptronics from vividracing.com, Dan got everything shipped out very quickly and was a real pleasure to work with.
I got them installed at Precision Motorsports Racing in NJ and aligned close to the GT3RS spec. Ride height is 650 front and 660 rear, which I believe is measured to the bottom of the fender off of the wheel's center.
-1,25' front camber
-2,25' rear camber
* Most they could squeeze out without getting adjustable control arms or any other parts
Overall Impressions: The stiffness without the PASM enabled (PSS) is similar to the PASM enabled stiffness of the stock suspension. Personally on the stock suspension I found it to be too harsh to use it on the street as the car was very bouncy. In this case the stiffness is the same but the travel is much shorter as a result you dont notice it as much.
Highway Driving: On the highway the regular stiffness (PSS) feels fantastic, the car is very well planted and just feels great. There really is no point in enabling the stiffer setting. Going over some rough patches you get alot more feedback, but most highways are pretty decent in the US so its definitely a great DD if you got a lot of highway miles to work.
Street Driving (NYC): I will say that street driving is a bit more difficult. NYC probably has the worst roads in the country and you get everything from bumps to potholes, to god knows what else. I drove carefully before but drive even more carefully now. In most cases however I already know the best roads to take so it doesnt detract from the car's everyday usability, but if you drive consistently on ****ty roads I think it will wear you down. Additionally with my ground clearance being next to non-existent I'm alot more careful watching the road to make sure I dont run over anything I shouldnt.
....
I got them installed at Precision Motorsports Racing in NJ and aligned close to the GT3RS spec. Ride height is 650 front and 660 rear, which I believe is measured to the bottom of the fender off of the wheel's center.
-1,25' front camber
-2,25' rear camber
* Most they could squeeze out without getting adjustable control arms or any other parts
Overall Impressions: The stiffness without the PASM enabled (PSS) is similar to the PASM enabled stiffness of the stock suspension. Personally on the stock suspension I found it to be too harsh to use it on the street as the car was very bouncy. In this case the stiffness is the same but the travel is much shorter as a result you dont notice it as much.
Highway Driving: On the highway the regular stiffness (PSS) feels fantastic, the car is very well planted and just feels great. There really is no point in enabling the stiffer setting. Going over some rough patches you get alot more feedback, but most highways are pretty decent in the US so its definitely a great DD if you got a lot of highway miles to work.
Street Driving (NYC): I will say that street driving is a bit more difficult. NYC probably has the worst roads in the country and you get everything from bumps to potholes, to god knows what else. I drove carefully before but drive even more carefully now. In most cases however I already know the best roads to take so it doesnt detract from the car's everyday usability, but if you drive consistently on ****ty roads I think it will wear you down. Additionally with my ground clearance being next to non-existent I'm alot more careful watching the road to make sure I dont run over anything I shouldnt.
....
Last edited by cannga; Jun 21, 2008 at 09:44 AM.
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Yes, the difference between PASM on/off with the damptronics isnt as noticeable.
I havent really played with it on the street because the off setting is already pretty stiff, but when I tried it on the highway it wasnt a night and day difference.
I havent really played with it on the street because the off setting is already pretty stiff, but when I tried it on the highway it wasnt a night and day difference.
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997 GT3 RS/TT: I think since Im a beginner I dont notice the rear being twitchy because Im driving at 5/10ths of what the car allows, but I'll keep it in mind. Im not familiar, what are adjustable stabilizers? What will they give me?
bbywu: Extremely happy
The car is still driveable everyday and it's a completely different car on the track. 100% worth it, couldn't be happier
bbywu: Extremely happy
The car is still driveable everyday and it's a completely different car on the track. 100% worth it, couldn't be happier
You can order stabilizers directly at Porsche from 997 GT2 and you will have best combination.
Regarding adjustment it is very individual case.
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Thanks. Just my amateur opinions (based on web research 
and multiple phone calls to Bilstein): If you think of how suspension is normally set up, first you select the spring rate, then you adjust your dampening rate to MATCH that spring, the implication being *in general* there is one "correct" dampening rate only for each spring, then I have no problem with Bilstein's NOT varying that dampening rate at all.
I think that stock PASM attempts to control pitch and roll by increasing dampening rate (versus the normal route of using stiffer spring), and this "shortcut" maybe has caused the problem some of us noticed. That FIRM/SPORT setting is jittery/choppy and just does not feel right. It helps with one aspect of suspension, pitch/roll control, but suffers terribly when dealing with the other: bump management.
I have some additional info on the PSS10 and some suggestion for alignment settings here if anyone is interested:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&page=0#449462
Re. "stabilizer": My car does have GMG anti-sway bar. I believe H&R also has a Turbo specific sway bar. Setting is full soft front, full stiff rear per Fabryce's recommendation (to reduce understeer/push in corners).
and multiple phone calls to Bilstein): If you think of how suspension is normally set up, first you select the spring rate, then you adjust your dampening rate to MATCH that spring, the implication being *in general* there is one "correct" dampening rate only for each spring, then I have no problem with Bilstein's NOT varying that dampening rate at all.I think that stock PASM attempts to control pitch and roll by increasing dampening rate (versus the normal route of using stiffer spring), and this "shortcut" maybe has caused the problem some of us noticed. That FIRM/SPORT setting is jittery/choppy and just does not feel right. It helps with one aspect of suspension, pitch/roll control, but suffers terribly when dealing with the other: bump management.
I have some additional info on the PSS10 and some suggestion for alignment settings here if anyone is interested:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&page=0#449462
Re. "stabilizer": My car does have GMG anti-sway bar. I believe H&R also has a Turbo specific sway bar. Setting is full soft front, full stiff rear per Fabryce's recommendation (to reduce understeer/push in corners).
Last edited by cannga; Jun 21, 2008 at 10:06 AM.
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Hi Bobby,
It's as if the car wakes up from a ponderous sleep. The pitch/roll control has noticeably improved. The car doesn't lean as much, and front/back weight transfer with acceleration and braking is now much more to my liking (a lot less). Steering response (similarly to the decrease in free play when going from NORMAL to FIRM setting of the stock PASM unit) is much quicker now, but my car has an alignment setting change at the same time so I don't know which change is responsible for this.
The negative: For comfort for the passenger for example, and if you drive your car on the freeway for say more than 1 hour, the stock is more comfortable. No surprise I think considering the spring is linear and the rate is quite a bit stiffer now.
It's as if the car wakes up from a ponderous sleep. The pitch/roll control has noticeably improved. The car doesn't lean as much, and front/back weight transfer with acceleration and braking is now much more to my liking (a lot less). Steering response (similarly to the decrease in free play when going from NORMAL to FIRM setting of the stock PASM unit) is much quicker now, but my car has an alignment setting change at the same time so I don't know which change is responsible for this.
The negative: For comfort for the passenger for example, and if you drive your car on the freeway for say more than 1 hour, the stock is more comfortable. No surprise I think considering the spring is linear and the rate is quite a bit stiffer now.
Last edited by cannga; Jun 21, 2008 at 10:44 AM.
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Thanks Cannga...I had waited a while to allow developers to produce products for my 996TT...things are a little more complicated now as Bilstein is the only manufacturer of PASM compatible adjustable coilovers...I guess I'll have to decide how much I need PASM, and if I will mind non-functional button on my console.
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I think sway bar would be next, also my shop recommended adjustable front drop links.
The reason being that at my ride height the sway bar carries a constant load even if the car isn't in a turn and that can break one of the drop links as a result when riding on a really rough surface, such as cobble stone, or just about any street in NYC.
I dunno if anyone else has heard the same from their shop, but it makes sense to me, although I can seem to find anyone who sells the adjustable front drop links (I didnt even know there was such a part, lol).
Anyone have any comments on this ?
The reason being that at my ride height the sway bar carries a constant load even if the car isn't in a turn and that can break one of the drop links as a result when riding on a really rough surface, such as cobble stone, or just about any street in NYC.
I dunno if anyone else has heard the same from their shop, but it makes sense to me, although I can seem to find anyone who sells the adjustable front drop links (I didnt even know there was such a part, lol).
Anyone have any comments on this ?
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Check with your installer but AFAIK, the Bilstein Damptronics kit comes with SHORTER drop links for the reason that you cited. I thought that if you dropped height within recommended range, the Bilstein drop links should be ok.
Here's the URL for adjustable drop links in case you need them; this is the front, but there is a rear one also--my installer didn't mention that I need them: http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...lnk-detail.htm
Just curious: How much did you drop? What are your ground to mid fender heights?
Here's the URL for adjustable drop links in case you need them; this is the front, but there is a rear one also--my installer didn't mention that I need them: http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...lnk-detail.htm
Just curious: How much did you drop? What are your ground to mid fender heights?
I think sway bar would be next, also my shop recommended adjustable front drop links.
The reason being that at my ride height the sway bar carries a constant load even if the car isn't in a turn and that can break one of the drop links as a result when riding on a really rough surface, such as cobble stone, or just about any street in NYC.
I dunno if anyone else has heard the same from their shop, but it makes sense to me, although I can seem to find anyone who sells the adjustable front drop links (I didnt even know there was such a part, lol).
Anyone have any comments on this ?
The reason being that at my ride height the sway bar carries a constant load even if the car isn't in a turn and that can break one of the drop links as a result when riding on a really rough surface, such as cobble stone, or just about any street in NYC.
I dunno if anyone else has heard the same from their shop, but it makes sense to me, although I can seem to find anyone who sells the adjustable front drop links (I didnt even know there was such a part, lol).
Anyone have any comments on this ?
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I just dropped off the kit still in its shipping packaging right at the installers so I never opened it up. But they didnt mention anything about shorter drop links being a part of it. They did recommend I get adjustable drop links to fix the problem.