As a teenager, my dad taught me to downshift through the gears to slow the car when coming to a stop (e.g., traffic light) to extend the life of the brakes. The idea was to use engine braking to reduce the amount of work the brakes have to do. Recently, however, I have heard of people putting their cars into neutral and solely using the brakes to stop to extend the life of the clutch. Given that the clutch on Vantages seems to be an Achilles heel of the car, it seems that running through the gears to stop may not be a great idea. What do you guys think? What are the positives and negatives of using downshifting thru the gears to stop and which side wins? FWIW, I'm talking about a manual transmission car.

 

The purpose of downshifting through the gears is not to save the brakes. Rather, it is to be in the proper gear when you are ready to accelerate again. This comes from the world of racing where you want to be in the right gear when you exit a corner.

It is important if you do this, that you learn proper rev-matching technique (i.e. heel & toe) so that you don't unbalance the car as you are slowing down. Unfortunately, the pedal placement on the Vantage is not really conducive to heel & toe.

In most cars, a clutch job is much more expensive than having to replace the brake pads. So the notion that you would do this to save wear of the brakes, at the expense of wear on the clutch, is silly when you think about it. On your car, of course, the CCM brakes are far more expensive. However, they are far less likely to wear anyway.

The engine is designed to propel the car. The brakes are designed to slow it down. Use them.

 

I understand that you want to downshift to be in the correct gear in case you need to accelerate in many situations, but I'm talking about stopping the car for a stoplight. As an example: you're driving along at 40 mph on a city street and the light down the road turns red. You have to come to a complete stop and you know you won't need to accelerate because there's no where to go anyway.

As for heel/toe, it doesn't really apply here because I'm talking about a daily commute and "typical" driving, not performance driving. I do tend to blip the throttle when I downshift in other situations to match engine speed to the extent I can though.

Yes, I understand that clutches are more expensive than brake pads. This is why I'm now wondering if I should stop the downshifting, and this is why I'm asking the question. To this point in my life, I've never had to replace a clutch and therefore haven't really given much thought about the associated costs. Since these cars seem to go through clutches quickly, however, and since Aston clutches are really expensive, I'm now thinking about it.

So, let me rephrase the question: When approaching a stop light, do you put your car into neutral and just apply the brakes, or do you also downshift?

 

depending on how fast when approaching to the stop light. I downshift to 2nd (plus brakes if needed) until speed around 15-20 before putting to neutral and brakes.

 

Racer_X. I did understand what you were asking. What I was trying to point out (rather ineffectively, apparently) is that using the engine for braking while approaching a stop light is silly. That is what the brakes are for, not the engine.

Be that said, however, it is always good practice to have your car in gear any time it is moving. Sometimes you find yourself in situations where accelerating out of an accident is more effective than stopping. Being in the right gear and ready to go could mean that fraction of a second between being in an accident or not. In fact, in some municipalities it is illegal to "coast", although I have no idea how they could ever prove that.

So the answer is: yes, downshift whenever you approach a stoplight, but rev match and use the brakes to retard your speed, not the engine.

 

I'm with you on rev matching when you're not braking, but what about when you're also braking? Often times the light turns red or yellow and you need to apply the brakes early to stop in time. In that situation, you can only rev match by heel/toeing, which I just don't see doing for a stoplight. Do you put the car in neutral in that situation? BTW, this is really the question I meant to ask. Sorry for not being clearer.

 

On the Esprit, I heel & toe down through the gears every time I slow down to a stop light. I only push the clutch in and put it into neutral when the car is almost at a full stop, but before it is about to stall. On the Vantage, I have to coast and use the brakes, because the pedals are too far apart and don't allow me to heel & toe.

Also, remember to take your foot off the clutch pedal while waiting at the light. Your clutch pedal should only be down when you are selecting gears.

 

I just downshift into 3rd if i am going pretty quickly like 55-65 and then put the car in neutral when i'm going like 30mph and use more brakes...

 

Okay, so it sounds like, at least for a car like the Vantage whose pedals are not set up for heel/toe, the answer is to go to neutral when you're braking (i.e., applying the brakes) for a stop. Looks like I need to change my driving style a bit. Thanks for the input guys.

 

Well if your talking about emergency braking, you don't shift to neutral..slam on the clucth pedal and brakes to make your emergency stop..but I don't believe your talking about emergency stopping..

Fast changing to a stop light just rev match when you can...you don't need to heel/toe just blip the throttle so it's not a large force on the clutch to take on. If the trans shaft and the engine are at the same speed, the impact force of slip on the clutch is reduced(not reducing life of the friction disc), versus being at engine 2000rpm and the trans shaft being at 5000rpm and letting the clutch force to stop slipping(wear the friction disc)..try and practice to blip the throttle when downshifting so there is almost no rise/change in rpm when you let off the clutch.

Be advised though your running a V12V clutch, I honestly have not seen a V12V clutch go "yet" *knock on wood*(talking about dealer I work at)..V8V are dime-a-dozen. The machined rivot idea(not real rivot just center stamped pins) that the V8V uses is the failure, the center stamped section on the friction disc let out and come apart, allowing the friction disc to really just fall apart.

I'd never shift to neutral when slowing, this can cause you to loose control, the driving wheels while braking allow the car to stay straight and stable, if not in gear your rear end can come around on you especially if your on a long turn, cars are designed with 70% braking of the front wheels and 30% of the rear wheels..always keep in gear when slowing..does this answer the question??

 

I wonder if this topic is raised now because of the Jay Leno/Aventador video posted in the last few days where the Lambo factory rep tells Jay to go to neutral in these situations to save wear on the clutch?

That comment got me thinking about my motorcycle driving in the city where it is constant stop and go. I also would like to know what is best practice say driving along at xx mph and see a light change,

coast/brake and cycle down all the gears at once

VS.

do the cool sounding engine breaking one gear at a time.

 

Always downshift when possible. Sometimes you don't have the time or distance to do it but when you do, you should, for safety reasons.

Right gear at the right time saves lives.

A moving car in "Neutral" is a No-No...

There will be those that say so what....put it in neutral and use the brakes. Don't listen to them.

 

I ALWAYS throw a manual in neutral when coming up to a light. Going through the gears whether it be up or down can be a herky jerky mess. Just throw it in neutral and glide to a smooth and comfortable stop and save clutch wear while you're at it.

 

In a word, yes. I actually saw a few posts a while back on a Ferrari forum in which a couple of guys said they always go to neutral when coming to a stop to extend clutch life, but the Jay's recent mention of this when driving the Aventador got me thinking about it again. Good catch!

 

I can't heel-toe. Maybe I'm not coordinated enough or maybe my giant feet just get in the way of one another.

When changing down I've always depressed the clutch, shifted into neutral, lifted off the clutch, blipped the throttle to bring the revs up a bit, depressed the clutch and shifted down. Is this redundant with the gearbox synchros?