I always find the GT vs. sports car threads interesting to read. Let me just put this out there for anyone who lives in the northeast:

The Vantage S has far more sporting character than GT.

Last night I drove into manhattan for dinner. The ride in wasn't too bad - came in from NJ through the Holland Tunnel.

The ride out - well, slightly different. We took the Lincoln Tunnel to the NJ Turnpike. I never realized how rough the road was until last night. The car held the road beautifully, but the road was filled with uneven road joints making for a very bumpy ride. I didn't mind, but my wife didn't love it. I know there have been people who reported that the S suspension and the standard Vantage suspension are the same, but that wasn't my experience yesterday.

Nonetheless, the car is amazing and handles extremely well. I would love to know if the suspension in the S is stiffer than the V12V.

 

Not for nothing, but if at all possible, park on the NJ side and take the ferry. The only worse environment for these cars than Manhattan has to be the arctic circle in winter.

 

Apparently you've never driven through Southern Queens or on Brooklyn's old Cobblestone Streets.

In a tightly sprung car you'll shake your fillings out as you feel your inner organs LITERALLY shuddering and bouncing in your body.


That said, no, the Vantage is assuredly not a GT car. The DB series is. However, the Vantage doesn't quite have the sporting character or performance level to define it as a true sports car.

So where does that leave it? Basically, in that nether region much like the F California and the old Porsche 968. A compromise between sports car & a GT.


- Dr G. No, the S's suspension is not as stiff as the V12's. The V12 had to be firmed up to cope with the extra aluminum in the nose. As a matter of fact, as counterintuitive as it may seem - the rear of the S's suspension is actually 10% softer than the normal Vantage, but the toe-in setting are set differently.

 

So how do you categorize the V12V?

 

I couldn't categorize the V12V as I've never driven one. I have driven the standard Vantage, the DB9 and my Vantage S. I've also driven the Lamborghini 570 superleggera and 550 bicolore.

The DB9 clearly has the most GT like ride - that is a given. The Vantage, to me sits between a true sports car and GT car. I accept the fact that the rear suspension of the S may be 10% softer but it feels stiffer. Mind you the 550 bicolore is stiffer and the superleggera feels like it has no give on public roads.

When I was researching cars a few V12V owners said the V12V was comfortable on long trips. I would really like to compare the ride quality of the two cars.

 

The Brit interpretation of a muscle car.

 

Certainly not.

The British version of a muscle car is the V8 Vantage LeMans V600

 

OK, the V12V is the "most focused sports car that AM builds" from the mouth of Bez. This is of course relative to the mean. In the case of AM, the mean is more luxurious than sporty. During early discussions of the V12V, I was told that the company was shooting for a 911 GT3RS space. I love the GT3RS but it is no where near as finished or comfortable as this car. There are similarities but only a few. I think that all AM's skew towards the GT space as opposed to the dedicated performance notion. I always scratch my head when people criticize AM for a less performance oriented approach. Does anyone criticize Porsche for boring interiors or an ancient exterior design? I have never not enjoyed driving this car. Even if I have to drive through a lousy stretch of road to get to a long windy road it's worth it.

 

Anyone have a direct comparison of the bicolore 550-2 and the V12V ? ... not sure what to expect exactly.

I know the 550-2 is faster in a straight line (and any other car listed). But as far as pure driving enjoyment I have a feeling it may be unsurpassed

 

The ire most likely resides from the compromise the Aston tries to make. In this price range, people want focus and execution of purpose with everything else secondary or an added benefit.
They want a luxury GT. A sports car. A track car. Uncompromising and unapologetic for what it is and the ultimate expression of what it can be, while being the best in its category or at least very near it.

When you start playing the grey area and compromising between X and Y - that's when cars in this price range can get themselves into trouble (or at least invite confusion).

For example, the GT3RS is just that - focused and uncompromised. It's a street legal Cup car. Don't ask for a rife set creature comforts and award winning interior appointment. There's none to be found. It stays focused on being the best N/A sports car that it can be.

Same essentially applies to the 550-2. Lose weight, lose the front wheel drive, deliver a more "pure" sports car experience.

The V12V plays in a weird area. It's not quite as nimble as the GT3RS or a powerful as a 550-2. While it has a beautiful GT interior, the short wheel base doesn't make it the best GT car. So what do you have? A compromised hybrid of sorts and therein lies the problem.

Now is the V12V a bad car - absolutely not. But what is trying to be and what is it the best at?

 

Personally, I don't care what the V12V is "trying to be" or how you categorize the car. I love it and that's the end of it for me.

It's unfortunate how much emphasis is placed on numbers (0-60, bhp, weight, lateral Gs, etc.) and how most seem to value a car based upon those numbers. Astons are not going to be the best on paper based on the numbers, but it really doesn't matter. As has been said many times, if numbers were all that mattered, we'd all be driving GT-Rs or ZR1s (and saving lots of money). When it comes down to it, the driving experience is the most important thing in a road car, and Astons provide driving experience in spades. Too bad there isn't an objective metric that can be given for the way a car makes you feel when you drive it.

 

I actually have no problem with the numbers, I was just giving an FYI for those looking at the Vantage S as a long distance cruiser vs. a more sporting experience.

FWIW, I agree about the way it makes you feel. It is the most enjoyable ride I've had.

As an aside, when I went to dinner on sunday (L'atalier de Joel Rubichon at the Four Seasons, NYC) the doorman insisted we leave the car in front of the main entrance of the hotel instead of using their valet lot. That was kind of cool.

 

I wasn't directing my comments at you Dr. G, or anyone for that matter. It's just that people in general seem to get so caught up in labels and specs that they miss the point. For most drivers, including car enthusiasts, the car that is fastest around the Nurburgring is not the car you want to drive out in the real world under normal circumstances. When I said "driving experience," I probably should have said owner or user experience because there is even more to enjoying a car than driving it. To me, the owner experience includes climbing into the car and smelling the leather; seeing the beautiful interior with its glass crystal and metal alloys; starting up the engine and hearing that fantastic engine note; driving along a back road and threading through the twists and turns; dropping a cog with the meaty gear lever on the highway to overtake a slower driver and feeling the power swell; getting a thumbs up from another driver at a stoplight or having someone walk up to you to complement the car while you're filling up the tank; parking the car to head into the office and turning around to gaze one more time at the sexy curves of the car. All of this stuff is what counts in the real world in terms of owning/using a car, and most of it cannot be objectively measured.

 

No need to get defensive. I'm not downing the Vantage. I'd love to have one. I loved the Vanquish despite its faults. I still love DB9 - and even when it came out it was by no means the best GT car on the market.

When Aston delivered the DBS, which for all intents and purposes was supposed to be the DNA cousin of the DB99, it again under performed as compared to the F 599, CL AMG, and M6.
I would still take over all the aforementioned, because, to your point and in my words - just looking at the car and listening to it with a Quicksilver exhaust just makes me feel tingly in my no-no places.

The point I was making is as opposed to a car design to attack and focus on one particular category goal, it rather simply "is what it is."
Not at all a bad thing.

 

Honestly, no offense taken and I didn't intend to come off as defensive (I really don't feel that way). If you read my last post, which popped up just prior to yours, I just feel that people too often miss the point when it comes to "performance" cars, whether they be of the GT, sports, or other variety. In short, the fastest car around a track is not necessarily the best car to have. Based on your comments above, it appears that you understand this. Although part of me wishes more people understood this, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of my car.