FWIW, I don't have anything against a flappy paddle transmission. I've driven paddle cars and have loved them. My issue is more with the recent trend of overautomation that seemingly takes the driver out of the equation.

I forgot to comment on that point. Do you really think so many people are criticizing the McLaren because it's too good? Since when has being really good been a negative? It's telling to me that a lot of the Brits, who take pride in British achievements, are also making these comments about the car. I think that saying people are criticizing the car "because it's too good" is an excuse.

 

I have to disagree here. I've read many reviews and (as another poster mentioned), they don't cite many objective flaws about the car, rather, just use subjectives to criticize it. Of course, most of the criticism is when the MP4 is compared to, and, rightly so, to the 458. Still, they keep using subjective arguments.

On the other hand, one thing I am disappointed about the MP4 is the fact that they had the chance to benchmark it vs the 458 and still can only produce a car that is more-or-less at the same level instead of besting it a la GTR vs 911 from years back.

 

One way I compare cars is through the resale market. I was talking to an owner of an MP4 last week and he was telling me the car is already worth 30k less than what he paid while the 458 is holding very well. The MP4 is amazing but the 458 is essentially the same price and to me a much better looking and sounding car.

 

how AM holds its price ? is it better or worse? lets wait 3-4 years but Im not so sure mpc12c will do bad

 

Exactly the perspective of someone getting passed. There has to be an explanation for the Ferrari to get beat. If you ask me the front of the 458 looks like a catfish. The rear has those silly round brake lights like 70's Corvettes and the three tail pipes of 2 different sizes are at best gimmicky. Now tell me that those are an homage to previous Ferraris. Isn't that what they did with the Mustang, Charger and Camaro? That's great company to be in. I'm not saying that the McLaren is an Aston, but it's style isn't so prohibitive to forget the numbers. I'll tell you what is unforgettable: finishing first. This is only the second road going McLaren, not the next Ferrari.

 

even finish first is different form one to another, is 0-60 or is it 3 hours of challenging driving in colorado or the alps ? I believe McLaren & Ferrari will do the second one very well. Im curious to know if the mp4 shines on track only or can it do amazingly well on the road ?

 

Interesting how a number of people have argued the McLaren shines on track compared to the Ferrari. Not so, according to many sources, such as Evo, Car, and Fifth Gear (Tiff and Jason strongly disliked it on track, as a matter of fact, feeling that it 'fought' the driver).

 

I always thought that the 458's front looks like this (Bon Jovi's 'Have a nice day' logo):


The 458 Spider made the car look a lot better, but again, it's not as good-looking as when the 360 first came out, imho. The best angle is its side profile. The front and rear as just so-so. The headlights are still a bit weird to me.

The 12C looks relatively understated and sedate, but I bet that it will age better as a result of such refined, low profile looks. The front and back look nice enough but the side looks too 'stretched'.

 

some recent articles...like Porsche the car is designed & engineered to win....

"Best and greatest supercar ever!"
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...IEWS/120519982

http://classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3600.asp?id=15974

Official results from Auto Magazine (Italy).
Balocco lap time: 2'43"46 -third best, (2'43"90 for the Ferrari 458 Italia / #1: Porsche Carrera GT 2'42"62 ; #2: Lamborghini LP700-4 2'42"91).
Final score: 179.5/200 (177 for the Ferrari 458 Italia).
What's good
ALL !
Incredbly engine
Performances
Goood comfort
Grip & stability
****pit
What's not
Rear-stability during hard-brake @ very high speed
More on German Car Forum

 

If I remember correctly, evo said the McLaren did best the 458 in terms of performance, but they chose the 458 for other reasons (I won't say "soul"!).

It seems like lots of people prefer the looks of the 360 when it comes to the modern Ferraris. I've actually been kicking around the idea of getting a Challenge Stradale. Still haven't driven one though. Has anyone here? Was thinking I might start a thread . . .

 

^^ You will LOVE the Stradale....cars a Rock star....

 

^^So you've owned one or driven one? Also, have you owned/driven the regular 360? I was a bit disappointed with the shift speed of the F1 360, but I understand that the CS shifts as quickly as the 430, which I thought was great.

 

yes...cars Raw in comparison....looks, sound & performance...you cant go wrong...here's 2 pictures of my old TDF Blue (best color on that car) Strad..

 

Wow, looks fantastic in blue. Anything to look for when buying? Any common problems? Also, why did you sell?

 

have the car inspected for clutch & break wear %....even though the car is made for the track you dont want to buy one that was ...make sure the annuals were done on the car (belts, etc) ...that's any where from 2-$3k ever 5 (est) thousand miles or 2 years...no stories...obviously no accidents...there out there so ...Oh...sold the car back in like 06/07...only car I didnt lose money on...before it really started to depreciate ...however now I think its a good stable buy