Jasper,

"Soul" is no less relevant than any other subjective aspect of a car. Looks, sound, steering feel, etc. are all subjective and everyone perceives them in his or her own way. If soul is irrelevant as a discussion topic, then we shouldn't discuss looks, sound, feel, smell, etc. either.

People who "get" soul when it comes to cars understand what it means, and while obviously opinions will vary, it means much the same thing to us. We know when a car has it and when it doesn't, even if we may debate which has more or less.

You don't seem to "get" soul. I suppose that's to be expected from a guy who drives a paddle-shifted AWD computer on wheels

 

Exactly -- soul is not something that is quantifiable. It's a quality, not a quantity. That's why it's important.

 

I have had serveral Ferrari's over the years and Decided on the Mclaren...I actually thought that I would miss something but I was wrong ....looks, interior, power, handling is all there...and it's a Mclaren for Christ sakes ......I'll have to try and post a picture of mine...it was spec'd out quite nicley I might add....

 

I apologize for the long post. I am currently driving the Spyder and the MP4-12C. Had a bunch of Italias before the MP4. Plenty of track time in all of em. I think the reviewrs are a bit off on this. The 5th gear guys get it closest to right but that's on a "first" drive impression. First off, the Mac is really not a competitor to the Italia. Yes, I know they cost the same; yes, they are roughly the same size; yes they both have 8 cyl etc etc. But, the drive is very different. The Mac is really more of a competitor (and better I might add) to the 911 Turbo S. Similar drive feel. It goes like a bat out of hell but at a much lower RPM and peak torque kicks in early. First gear is pretty much useless and you short shift to second and suddenly it's like it gets stung by a bee or something. Truly, blisteringly fast and a bit jittery. On a track, I'll say this, 99.99% of drivers will be faster around a track in the Italia. That .01% that is truly a pro and not just a wanna be will be faster in the MP4. And by a decent margin. It's the electronics. The Italia's electronics kick in subtly and push the car to stay in line in the turns or if you accelerate while in the wrong position. The MP4 does it all of a sudden and quite violently. When it let's loose it does it all at once and you tend to go way wide on a turn that the Italia would go around nicely. The pro that can handle the torque and rip it around with some slide has no issue (much like a Z-01 for example) but the electronics certainly don't measure up the same way. It does NOT lack for excitement. It just has a different feel. One that is less exotic than the Italia. The 458 feels like you are driving a different type of car. The Mac feels like you are driving a race car.
Regarding the MP4 as a street car. Well, there's lots of things wrong with it. First off, NONE of the american ones have bluetooth or that voice email or nav yet. The IRIS system was disabled and they still haven't figured out how to get it to work right. You do get the IPod thing working but rather poorly. The doors? Well, I routinely challenge people to get it open and shut the first time. 0/6 so far. 0/7 if you include me. You cannot get in and out of it without looking rather silly. The door itself takes part of the car sill with it so it's actually pretty cool but working it is . . . challenging, till you get used to it. The car feels smaller inside because it is. The MP4 was designed to stick you in the center of the car or as close as you could get. Thus, the door sill is HUGE. I'm talking 14+ inches huge which makes getting in and out even more interesting. The steering wheel is race car small and I actually like it. The shifters, you will hate if you are used to Ferrari. They are seesaw connected to each other and it takes a lot of force to pull it back where it "clicks" and puts you into gear. The exhaust is nice because it stays on and loud all the time unless you choke it down via "modes" and then it's nice and quiet. Suspension? Ugh, it rolls. It's all hydraulic so it literally feels like it rolls over bumps like a boat over waves. A bit seasick inducing. So, I hate it right? No, I actually love the car. At first I wasn't that into it to be honest. But the more I drive it the more I enjoy it. The gear lever and tiny steering wheel in particular I think are great and spot on. And the drive itself is fun and very different from the Italia. I like to think of the Italia as a truly great road car that you can take on the track. The Mac is a great track car that you can take on the road. Oh and that one reviewer that said it makes a great daily car? Uh . . . no. The R8 was a great daily car, this not so much.

 

Ok, 6 pages of MP4. Enough already. This is an AM forum.

 

Thanks for the review RDH. It's nice to hear from an owner's perspective.

 

Yes, great review, and cool pic!

 

Agreed. Always nice to get a real owner's perspective rather than a reviewer who only drove the car for a couple of hours.

 

Great review. I am looking forward to testing the Mac in a year or two, when the spyder becomes available and additional refinements are made to the package.

Ferraris are gorgeous and I have no doubt they are superb to drive. However, I like the concept of the Mac as a rarer, more accessible option for those of us (i.e. me) that lack specialized driving skills.

 

That's what I thought: that the 12C would be easier to drive according to all those reviews. However, according to RDH (did s/he compliment his own post?? LOL), it's the opposite. Funny.

 

Soul is relevant to each person and means something different from the beginning. You don't seem to 'get' soul. You cannot define soul for anybody else besides yourself. It is easy to describe your opinion about looks, power response, feel, etc... these are things that many can relate to (whether people agree or disagree). I'm not sure why or how you inferred that I said nobody can be subjective - please point out any post where I suggested anything remotely close to it.

You made a lot of assumptions in this post. And, in my opinion, they are incorrect assumptions. Fortunately, for me, this proves my point. If you go back and read my first few posts about this subject, it should make sense.

And - yes, you have me nailed down - the R35 is the only car I've ever owned/driven..., ever.

This post goes against everything from your previous post. I agree that it is not definable, therefore cannot be measured - by anybody - except the person using the word. If it cannot be measured, why mention it?

It's like saying - 'this the best car I've ever driven' (without ever knowing what other cars you've driven before). What does 'best' mean to you? What are you comparing it with? Certainly means a lot to the person saying it, and he could very well be 100% right in his own mind. When you find out I've only driven a Ford Fiesta and I was talking about a Fiat 500 Abarth, it changes things. Because this term is not quantifiable, you will never have a base understanding to measure from, therefore - irrelevant.

If somebody says,"The Ferrari FF is an ugly car" this is an opinion. It does not appeal visually to the reviewer. Fine. We want to see pictures, so we can discover this for ourselves, we throw this information out. Would you rely on somebody else saying it is ugly, and not providing pictures? "Oh well, reviewer 'x' said it was ugly, so I don't like it." No. We see pics, and make a determination based on those (and even sometimes see other pics, maybe in other colors, or in person, and change our minds anyway).

If somebody says "The Ascari A10 is a very quick car" that is also an opinion, but can easily be quantified through base tests (acceleration 0-60, 1/4, 60-130, skid pad, etc...).

If somebody says (referring to the Maserati GranTurismo) "And it feels like it has a soul, too" this means something only to the reviewer (anybody care to guess who I'm referring to in this last one?).

 

Are we still having this debate?! Let's just agree that we'll never agree.

 

That was my original point - 7 billion people could all say something different, and all be right, according to themselves. Which is why it is irrelevant when trying to describe it to someone else.

Then somebody disagreed.

 

Weeeell, not really. Your original point was that people could have different opinions and, therefore, "soul" is irrelevant. Just sayin'!

 

Soul is anything BUT irrelevant. It is only irrelevant trying to use it in a review, in an attempt to describe anything about a car to somebody else.

Soul may be the sole reason somebody purchases a vehicle. However, a salesmen could not convince anybody that any car has one. The only person that will feel it, is the driver. And nobody can tell the driver where it is. It is up to each individual to learn that for him/herself. Hence, why using it to describe anything to anybody else is irrelevant.

I could see why you misunderstood my point, if you feel that I was saying that a car's soul (or the perception of it) is irrelevant. I don't believe I ever said anything to that fact.