No arguments there, but, as crazy as it sounds, 510 bhp is not enough to compete with Aston's rivals. Those rivals include other GTs like the 599 and the new F12. The F12 will be Ferrari's flagship and will have 730 bhp! That makes 510 bhp (or even 550 bhp as some are expecting) sound too low.

 

Especially when you consider the absurd amount of HP some 8-cyl Mustangs and Camaros are pumping out these days.

 

The point everyone is making is that 510 or 550 HP is low for the money. You just can't have any conquest sales when the car costs $300 and the HP is 550 or less. While its true that Aston customers don't buy their cars to have the fastest car around they certainly expect performance in at least the same ballpark as the competition. Three hundred large and your car won't break four seconds 0to 60? When you look at it that way and include the famous Aston depreciation curve the car just doesn't make sense unless you buy used or get a steep dealer discount.
BTY if your DBS outperforms a Gallardo and a 997 Turbo they must have had engine problems. And, a v8 R8 is its equal and a V10 is faster. I have driven all those cars and agree that the DBS is a beautiful GT but lets not overstate its performance.
Aston needs to add more content such as more HP, magna ride suspension and other improvements if they want to keep selling the cars for that kind of money because the competition is doing so.
One final example is the Jag XKRS. While it is no match for the Aston in panache it is superior in every performance catagory for $132. The cash difference is striking. You could buy an XKRS, Corvette ZR1 and a Boss 302 Mustang for the price of one DBS. I like the DBS better than any of those cars but, I doubt I would take the DBS over all three. And, any of the three will outperform it. Thats the point of this conversation.

 

^^^^ agree with the above and racer x and others..DBS is a stunning looking GT for sure but so is the db9, which many say is even prittier, and aside from muffler, intake, tune and a drop in 50 kg what is really the better GT?

I love diamond stitching but lambo and bentley had that 6 years ago, as for style it's great but it's basically the same outside of a few new flashy bits... The power is where they really could have made a difference, and they didn't. For the cost of the car it needs more power and performance, doesn't need to be the fastest just needs to play on the same level, I think with an additional 100 bhp they would be there.

 

1) Isn't this getting a bit ridiculous? We don't know what the "310" will cost yet, but a DBS is about $300K, while the F12 is likely to be $400K plus -- that's a huge price difference, so it makes sense that there would be a significant difference in hp. Also, while I love fast cars, can we really use 730 hp? Other than on a track, or in the right circumstance on the autobahn, where??? IMO, these outrageously fast (rather than merely very, very fast) cars have become less fun at anything short of crazy speeds than cars like a V12V.

2) While Astons are about more than just performance numbers (and better for that), the numbers are a part of the whole thing, so let's not sell Astons short, either. An R8 V8 is NOT as fast as a DBS -- a V8V 4.7 is every bit as fast as an 8-cyl R8. Magazine tests have shown it, as has my own experience.

3) The XKR-S is "superior in every performance category" to a DBS? Straight-line acceleration, yes. What else? Does it handle better? I don't think so. Regardless, that's the same argument that can be made about any other car that is "faster" than an Aston, and it ignores the rarity, craftsmanship, materials quality, attention to detail, etc. that make Astons special and desirable. A Corvette is faster than a Porsche at any given price point, as is a GT-R, and so on. Same argument.

Don't get me wrong, I want Astons to be competitive in their classes, but I don't think the next "DBS" (I know it's not likely to be called that) has to have F12 power, especially if it doesn't have an F12 price. The performance race has gotten out of hand, IMO. How fast does a road car really need to be?

 

To put it simply, times have changed. While you can argue that the horsepower wars have gotten out of hand and that no one really needs all of that power in a road car, this is the environment in which Aston finds itself. Although 500-550 bhp was impressive and befitting of the flagship of an exotic performance car marque several years ago, it just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

What you fail to realize is the several other factors important in purchasing an Aston for many people that make the whole HP thing moot.

Criteria for purchasing a car:
1) Must be a V12
2) Cannot be a Ferrari or Lambo - too flashy/flamboyant
3) Cannot be a Bentley - too 'rich man/banker'
4) Must have 'adequate' hp
5) Must be exclusive
6) Must have beautiful/handcrafted interior

There aren't too many cars that fit those criteria, but the DB9/DBS does. Now maybe you'd rather have a ZR1, an XKRS and a Boss 302, but not me. That's a fool's game making such a comparison...where does it stop? You can always buy faster for cheaper...so what. A rump steak, a blade steak and a flank steak do not equal a filet mignon.

 

these are 0-100mph times based on either Autocar or Evo's times
o-100mph 997 turbo gen 1 = 8 seconds
0-100mph gallardo spyder (not lp560) 0-100 9 seconds
0-100 mph r8 v8 = 10 seconds
0-100mph r8 v10 = 8.7 seconds
0-100mph aston dbs = 8.5 seconds



bearing in mind the aston has huge traction issues compared to those as they all have 4wd I would suggest it the numbers support my comment at the very least .


I take the point about its competitors bhp figures,but certainly here in the uk there is no point in having more than 500bhp,and I actually applaud aston for not getting involved in the ridiculous bhp figures that are creating a load of cars whose performance you can barely use and need the computing power of the space shuttle to keep you on the road.

I bought mine used,I wanted a gt,I tried all its competitors and the dbs was quite easily the best .

If performance per £ ($) was the only criteria we would all be driving nissan GTR's...they make all the lambos,ferraris,astons look ridiculously overpriced.

 

Okay, I'll say it: First luxury grand tourer with a hybrid that works, wins.

Give me 500+ HP, Aston looks and quality, with the range of 500+miles (maybe 1000miles), or gets 50mpg (not to save money, but to stop the inconvenience of having to stop).

HP wars have gotten a bit out of hand (I actually had the thought that I couldn't ever own a car with less than 600HP). Basically, find something else that people want (or a certain combination), and release that. Because, as stated above, how fast does a street car really need to be? I think 0-60 in 3secs is enough (your opinion may vary).

Let's take a page out of the 6sp/PDK novels - it isn't the speed that people are concerned with, but rather the experience. Isn't that the justification some have about being slower can be more fun? Well, in the Aston it is both more fun and more comfortable.

 

First, let me say that I like horsepower as much as the next person so I get why there is so much emotion around the bhp topic. When I first bought my v8v, I loved it but was constantly harassed about the lack of power. And, to be honest, I did feel it was a bit under powered but that's not why I bought the car. I bought it for the exclusivity, craftsmanship, beauty and a lot of other things.

Then, I moved up to the DBS. It had even more of what I wanted as well as a nice bump in horsepower. Even so, again, that's not why I bought it. If I wanted the most horsepower I could get, there are several other cars that would give that to me, and for much cheaper. After almost 2 years of owning the DBS, I have only had the opportunity to get to 130 MPH, and that was during a charity run escorted by police. The trick is to let the guy in front of you widen the gap, then "catch up".

Also, let's not forget that Aston Martin is fully capable of creating race cars with ridiculous horsepower. Just look at some of the races they've won. I think that they have chosen to keep a lid on the power for various reasons.

These days, I really enjoy my car as a daily driver. The fact is that it's a GT and strikes the right balance of power, comfort and handling. I do like talking about the car when there is a gathering of exotics and other cars that push the limits of bhp. 99% of the time, people really appreciate the refined nature of an Aston Martin and I certainly appreciate the unique qualities of their cars.

As for the 1% that do come up to me with a very ****y tone and feel the need to educate me on the difference between my car and theirs, in a race, I'm happy to say, "The difference between my car and your car is that I don't have to start mine up to win!".

 

Sketchy reports coming in on other forums from people that were at a preview & have seen the new "310" car. Looks better than the renderings, has 573hp, available by end of year, price starts around $320K. No word on manual transmission.

 

Links?

 

Links:
http://www.amoc.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=118&uri=http://www.amoc.org/forum/index.php?topic=23774.0;topicseen

and (halfway down the page)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=70&t=1149138&i=60&mid=305810&nmt=N ew+DBS+next+year%3F+++

 

Ah, the silly hp wars. Just who is it that exploits the full performance of their supercar on the public road? Guys like this: http://www.worldcarfans.com/11205154...aught-on-video

There are those who will always be worried that their Aston is slower than the next guy's car, and there are those who don't care because their car has more performance than can be reasonably exploited on the street.

Seems like some people here are masochists: they buy into Aston and then set about flagellating themselves when the cars don't perform to their liking. Get over it, move on. The brand has always been an underdog, struggling from owner to owner, grappling with limited resources. This isn't likely to change any time soon...

 

You don't need to take your car to its top speed or drive it at full throttle to "exploit" its performance. You benefit from the power at much slower speeds and without burying your foot. Also, you could make the argument that no one actually needs more than 350 bhp on the road too.

As for Aston "always being the underdog," they once made some of the fastest cars in the world. Back in the '90s Aston had a twin supercharged Vantage that had 550 bhp and a top speed of 200 mph. That car was no underdog.