Interesting point

Rolls Royce is a BMW assembled in the UK
Bentley is a VAG assembled in the UK

I do think MB would be an issue for AM identity though

 

Bah, is there still such a thing as a major British car company still owned by the Brits? Like others have said, RR is now a Bimmer, Bentley a VW, both Germans now, not to mention that Jaguar is Indian, Lotus Malaysian and McLaren Bahrainese, etc etc etc!

Who cares where the parts come from, as long as it's the best for the product.

 

Sadly, the connection that makes the best biz sense won't happen. It would be great if Aston and Ford could connect again (does FMC still own a tiny percentage?) on certain elements. How about co-developing a new V12 using the Direct Injection technology FMC is using on the 5.0? And Aston could supply the Rapide chassis (which has bombed) to Lincoln for a high end car to compete and give the brand a real personality. Aston could tap the V6 Ford engine for an entry level car (Jag F-Type fighter) since they have a tradition with 6 pots - even though I think they were straight not V engines. Lincoln could get help from Aston and vice versa.

But so many in the exotic world feel a stigma about Ford. That is funny to me since no one says that about Audi/Lambo, all part of VW - or Ferrari (owned by Fiat).

 

Let me try a little different perspective. Aston has essentially been a boutique coach maker relying on other companies materials for decades. I agree that the Ford ownership was double-sided in terms of increasing reliability and possibly dampening the exotic nature. There was a time when Jaguar and AM shared parts as well. There have always been strategic partners. That is different than ownership and outright control. I'm sure that MB is not dictating how a Zonda is built. We all have to remember that our precious V12 is the union of 2 6's and it's essentially 20 years old with some tweaks. This is ancient in engineering terms. I know that there is always more power to be had when it comes to this thing but how does that translate to performance? I love my car and have utter glee every time I drive it. It does make me wonder how lower displacement engines with less cylinders produce the same HP and faster cars. I wouldn't change my car for any of them but it does bring about a bit of a concern moving forward. So it is probably inevitable that there will be a new association made to continue to provide a modern power train. The question becomes who will be that partner and how will it affect the final product? I don't think that using MB power sources is by itself a bad thing, just like using Ford or Cosworth has not been bad. The soul of the car remains the same if the AM design people are still piloting the final product. So the idea of a foreign engine is really nothing new to AM. For those of us who have owned these cars for the last 10 years, it may seem like blasphemy but it is really nothing new to AM. They simply don't have the resources to develop a modern V12 on their own and continue to grow in the space. MB seems like a better choice than the rest of Germany. I don't think that there will be a choice in this matter. It's a survival thing. Hopefully, this will be a graceful alliance, not a take over. No company gaining "final say" will be a good thing. When you think about how close AM was to going away before Ford stepped in it gets a little scary. That wasn't that long ago and the economic climate was a bit similar. So I don't think that we should fear the MB engines. Seeing "Aston Martin, a Daimler Company" in the owners manual is a different story.

 

Really? What 'foreign engine' is in an Aston? The V12 is found in no other car except Aston. You don't see that motor in any Ford, do you? When you open the bonnet, no one says that motor comes out of some Ford, do they? Same with the V8. It was design and developed by Jag, modified by AM, and then slotted into the Vantage. Same story for the supercharged I-6 in the early DB7.

The very last thing I want to see is some other company's motor in the engine bay. The heart and soul of the car is the engine (regardless of whether you think it is underpowered or not). I can imagine opening the bonnet and someone pointing out how there's an MB powerplant in there. No thank you.

 

IMO, given the choice of Aston falling even further behind in terms of technology and having to use someone else's engine, I'll take using someone else's engine. It wouldn't change the character of the car that much, except to give it improved performance. As for sound, you hear the exhaust system more than the engine and Aston would still have control over over the exhaust even if they used a sourced engine.

 

The point is that at least the origin of the engine is not Aston Martin. In each case it was developed by someone else and tuned by AM. Would you feel more comfortable if the block or basic design was handed over to AM for modification with out badging? Because as you said, that's how the V8 and V12 came into being. Sorry if the term "foreign engine" ruffled your feathers. How about this: "Outsourced power-train technology" is nothing new to AM. It wouldn't have to be the 5.5L in every MB. I realize that no one else uses the current AM engines. Hopefully it's because of an exclusivity relationship, not because of the availability of more modern designs.

 

Great point. AM will always have the ability to shape the final product. When I look at the One-77 and the new Vanquish in terms of materials and design, it's exciting to see the modernization of the rest of the car. The brand would not be hurt to have the same progress in performance and power source.

 

The new Vanquish has more than enough power for any sane person. If you (plural) want more than 565 hp, then Aston is not the brand for you because they will never be competing for top dog status in the ridiculous HP wars started by the Germans and Italians. If you (plural) are that power addicted, you need to look to some other car brand to get your fix.

 

Why do some ppl make it sound like it's going to be a company take over, "THIS WOULD NOT BE A BUY OUT" .. hehe either those replies are just hate for MB period or germain built in general, if germany is the case..hope you realize Am motors are built in Cologne..lol

Wtv the case.. if MB does a merge with Aston..it's going to be just like the Jaguar/Ford days..information/parts would be shared on there technology/development ..when you lift the bonnet of a V8V you see a jaguar inspired engine..if there was a merge to MB, you would lift the bonnet and see a MB inspired motor built to AM spec/needs.

This does not mean you would lose the Aston V12 (XJRS Owner) , who knows what AM would do..maybe just use the MB V8 to replace there Jaguar inspired V8 and keep there wide known V12 power plant, just up the ante to 600bhp for Vanquish, the V12 AM motor maybe aged but still has area's that can be worked on to make more power if needed ..One-77 has proven this, if this project was not done, the new Vanquish would not have the VVT and advanced knock control, ..reasoning for such a loooong wait on adding this to the V12, ....Funding, and AM needs it for new powertrain/drivetrain developments!!

 

565HP is massive, plenty for any car. It's really a question of progress and translation to performance. My hope is that the company will be able to sustain its autonomy going forward with the CO2 regulations and the economic environment. It would seem like an alliance would be necessary to do so. I'm not looking to out duel an Italian or a German with my Vantage. I get the distinction. My whole point is the future of the company is important to me. There is no way around a change in the power source for a number of reasons. I would rather see AM have a choice in the matter as opposed to some kind of out right take over and dulling of the brand.

 

I had thought about he CO2 thing, but was told that due to the low volume amounts built out of Gaydon, AM just has to pay a smaller fine than the giants do, the fine is cheaper for there books

 

How does this make you feel about MB engines?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11207194...gines---report

 

Please don't go the way of Lotus and get all Toyota engines.... I would much rather have an AMG sourced engine than a Camry

 

I suspected the Toyota link when AM started buying IQ's, Bez started racing with Toyato's CEO and giving money/Rapides to their charity.
When the LFA production ended AM buying the engines made a lot of sense
I wouldn't mind a modern V10 in my Aston
They don't need to mess with the V8 they have already bench tested mods to 450 BHP for it.