Here is a car with real soul.

 

JasperGT, I think the issue with Toyota is that they do not have the motoring pedigree of Porsche or Ford or Mercdes. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't. Even GM has a more storied history with road cars.

At the moment they have one car that lives in the supercar ranks and I think it might bebthiervonly one to date (there was that 2000 or something in the 60's). It's a great one, but everything else is pretty much the opposite of that car. Until they make mostly exciting cars, I just don't see Aston buyers bragging about having a Toyota block in their car. Not when they can buy a Ferrari with a Ferrai engine in it, or a Porsche with an actual Porsche motor, a McLaren with its bespoke motor.

This is nothing new. Just ask owners of the VW Porsche's or Fiat Ferrari's. Those cars never did get the shine of their big brothers. Just today I read a review of the new Vanquish and they had to call out the Ford controls as being less than welcome.

Audi has done a great job of managing the exotics, but even there you can see how tricky it is. Exotics are a tricky business, they are mostly emotional. Sort of like watches. No one cares if Swatch/timex etc can keep better time than (fill in blank). And who really needs a watch that can go 200 feet below the surface? But we buy them, even though there is no real performance advantage.

Isn't that the fun of all this? We aren't racing here, just silly guys spending too much money on stuff we really don't need. They joy is in the emotional side. The sounds, the thrill, the exclusivity, the beauty, the tech, the fraternity, the sensation of speed.

Don't let logic and reality creep into our dreams lol

 

Aston would not need to buy LFA engines from Toyota, rather they could just license all the technology, make some mods, and then construct the engines in their Cologne, Germany engine plant just like they do now.

Would such an engine then pass muster with the purists out there?

 

This is exactly what I'm referring to. What difference would it make who it came from? Where do they come from now?

 

Another great post. Again, I don't disagree with anything here.

I completely agree that a typical Aston owner (one who prioritizes individuality over the masses, luxury over performance (while still enjoying a drive), quality over quantity, along with the money to discern all of the above) would snub a Toyota block. Speedraser is evidence of this superiority complex.

The Toyota GT-one was a pretty decent machine. Without comparing who has the most wins, I'd throw all of that away, because a Koenigsegg may appeal to a similar crowd, while having having NO heritage at all. I'm not big on discussing heritage, because at one point, nobody had any, yet great cars appeared, and made a name for themselves.

Do Pagani owners say,"Look at my Mercedes engine"? Probably not. We are too busy slobbering over the lines of a beautiful machine (arguably). Do we think that most Aston owners (people with relatively more money than the average person) is aware of the process anyway?

I'd like to think that some people with money did not just inherit a chunk of change and bought a DB9, but rather chose carefully, after weighing all of their options, choosing informatively, based on the buyer's criteria.

So I think we have three groups of people (if this hypothetical was put into play)

#1 people that look down on Toyota for whatever reason
#2 people who don't care who supplied the pieces of metal that were assembled by Aston
#3 people who don't know that engines are responsible for making that mysterious, yet enjoyable, growl in front of the car, propelling it, in response to the pedal thingy on the right.

I also heard people say that when Porsche does away with the Mezger engine, that the company will end. The problem is - there are too many people who either don't care, or was able to see past what is currently known. Let the prejudice prejudge. Everyone else can find out for themselves.

 

I don't really care for the thought of the LFA engine personally, but there are many who still look down on any of the bits Ford sourced for the cars.

 

Agreed.

On the track, all that matters is the engineering and the numbers. But on the road so much more colors our judgement. Plus we are actually buying all the other stuff too. To be honest we are mostly buying the other stuff.

I do think Pagani owners like the Merc/AMG motor in that car. Same goes for Koenigsegg. I think those cars feel more exotic because they have that motor and the connection to not only Mercedes and AMG, but also the McLaren F1.

I don't think those startups would have had the same cache had they chosen a Chevy V8 instead, or the Chysler V10 from the Viper. Just as people don't lust after the Volvo based motor in the Noble M600, quite the same way as the twin turbo McLaren motor.

I understand the draw for the two companies. Toyota has an image problem and Aston has a technology problem.

But in all honesty, I don't want my Aston to have a Lexus motor (and I would drive the LFA). Just like I wouldn't want it to have an excellent Hyundai motor, or a miracle designed by Skods or Lada.

Why? Not because they aren't good, but because at the moment, none of those brands have ideals that are consistent with Aston. For me it fractures the idea of the Aston brand. It's like finding out Timex made the movements in your exotic watch. I'm choosing Aston because they are everything those firms are not. Hell, they still have no SUV and useless cup holders!! I love that.

What Aston needs is a PARTNER that can help propel the Aston ideal into the future, while adding competence they lack. That's what Lambo got when Audi came on board. I could not imagine Lambo competing with Ferrari or Porsche, or even the new Jag supercar, without Audi's money and knowledge.

What is the Aston answer to the Porsche 918, the new Enzo, the Jag C-X75?? How will they interpret that leap forward in the Aston way??

Probably a better issue than a Toyota motor

 

Wow. No rebuttal here. Wonderful posts.

 

There's a Toyota engine and then there's the LFA engine. I've heard one drive by, and I'd be fine with it. As for the more hard core Aston folks (bless your hearts), how about having AML buy the cylinder heads and the ECU, and have all the other bits cast and assembled in Köln?

The cylinder head and management code are where the bulk of the development dollars are sunk anyway. It's a low-risk, high-value leveraging of assets.

 

I don't think Aston will do the mix n match solution, they want a all inclusive motor package to drop into their cars and solve most of their consmption, emissions & technology issues.

Aston exhaust notes have always been on the muscular side, that is a part of their character. Mercedes V8s are in line with that character, the Lexus LFA is not AT ALL. Yes it is a great sounding motor but it does not for Aston, and AML knows that. In addition, Aston already has a loosely based partnership with benz on many other fronts so that Is the "path of least resistance".

Those at are critical of Benz reliability ... That was only during a brief period between 2003-2006 when MB fell to the bottom of the JD Power quality reports. However, in 2007 they turned their ship around and immediately went back to the top in both initial quality and reliability. So yes, I agree, from 2003-2006 Benz was junk in many ways. I refuse to buy a Benz from that period, but those criticisms do not apply anymore and MB has long since fixed most of those concerns. The new drivetrains are virtually bulletproof, as are their cars these days. I have the 6.3L in my SUV and it's an absolute freight train of a motor and the car has never given me any issues (and I torture the poor thing lol).

It will work out for the best, I ak confident in Astons future if it partners with Benz, they will be great together

 

I don't think anybody here really thought Aston was going to drop in an LF-A engine. There is no way Aston Martin would allow a high revving engine that is completely out of character of all previous models.

It is not beyond reason to think some of that R&D could end up in COMPONENTS from the LF-A platform to be introduced into the Aston Martin lineup.

It was already suggested that Mercedes is a better fit. I don't think any disagree.

 

I do. I don't need/want some everyday MB motor in my Aston, period. Aston needs an Aston motor to be unique.

 

Isn't the LFA engine unique....and would it make the Aston more unique?
I'm sure it can be tuned to more Aston-esque characteristics. Aston Martin and Toyota already are collaborating on a project and that could open the door for others. I don't see the problem. Aston Martin wants to sell more cars. Doing what they have been doing is not bringing in the big bucks. Let the purists talk all they want. Money talks, everything else walks. They want more money. Cheaper to source out an engine than build from the ground up. If a wonderful engine is available why not.

I thought there was a call to stop taking this subject to seriously. Why is this bothering some of you so much you can't let it go? All this serious talk about speculation and rumors.

 

I was only responding to the idea of using a pedestrian MB motor...they're as common as ants.

If I had to choose, I'd take an LFA V10 a hundred times over, before I'd consent to an 'everybody has one' MB powerplant in my Aston.

 

What? Everyday MB motor? You don't think it is possible for Aston to have any say in the engine that goes into their cars? You think they'll just purchase an existing engine from a 6 cyl Mercedes or something and drop it in? Come on... Let's stay within the realm of reality.
Nobody made any reference to dropping in a pedestrian motor. I think you were the only one who made that reference. I think you're underestimating what both Mercedes and Aston are capable of.