Drove a 2009 4.7L SS Today ...
#1
12-13-2012, 04:47 PM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,765
Rep Power: 95 
Drove a 2009 4.7L SS Today ...
Hey Guys,
In my quest to decide on my perfect Aston for me, I test drove yet another Aston. I will again express my experience after test driving the car extensively as best I can. Remember, these are my opinions and do not necessarily represent 100% fact so please do not get offended, just trying to compare all the different variants against one another to find which one I feel to be the best balanced package.
The car I drove was a 2009 4.7L Coupe today with SportShift1 transmission. It had the sport pack 5 spoke wheels on it. This is the first time I had ever driven the speed shift so I was curious if it was really as bad as so many people claim.
Immediate impressions: TORQUE ... I was not expecting the 4.7L to have such a drastic difference than the 4.3L. What was even more impressive is that driving it back-to-back within just 2 days of the V12, I did not really feel as if the 4.7L was lacking by much in the torque department at all. Although the V12 obviously had more low end torque, I felt the 4.7Ls torque was far more usable in the sense that it did not light up the tires mercilessly in 1st gear like the V12 would.
Also, I was quite impressed how well balanced the entire power band was over all. It really is a case of Goldilocks' choice being "just right". Neither the HP nor TQ were too much relative to the other in any way. It had more than enough ample torque to be fun on the bottom end, and pulled hard all the way to redline in a smooth linear fashion. It honestly felt like it pulled harder than the V12, even in stock form.
Handling: The 4.7L in stock form obviously does not have the sportiest of suspension setups in the world. The compression was too soft and the rebound too slow. Alot of that could be attributed to the excessive rotating unsprung mass of the stock steel 1-piece rotors. Immediately jumping from V12 to the V8 you could tell majority of the quick responsiveness was due to the huge difference in rotating mass. If you were to get 2-piece rotors that would solve most of the problem (or come to another more profound conclusion, discussed in a little bit).
Interior: Updated look is definitely improved than the 4.3Ls although I feel like the 4.3Ls layout was simpler & more intuitive.
Transmission: After having done some homework before hand by reading a few of the reviews it seemed that most people compared the SS1 to BMW's single clutch SMG system. In some respects that is a big of a harsh comparison b/c SMG was crap, however, there is some merit to such a comparison. Although it was not absolutley horrible as many exclaim, it certainly did not match the refined sport nature of the car. The shifts were too laggy, slow respond time to paddle inputs, and during shifts it would hold too long. I wouldn't mind a paddle shift setup, but it would have to be superior to this (hint hint).
Overall, I was actually quite impressed with the 4.7L V8 compared to the 4.3L. In many respects I actually feel the 4.7L V8 is by far the most balanced package of the 3 variants. It may not have the ocean wave of torque as the V12, but I feel the torque it does have is better suited for the Vantage Chassis. In many ways, the V8 just feels like a much more natural choice than the V12 which honestly felt like it was shoehorned into the chassis. Not to say the V12 isn't great, it is of course, its just less balanced than the V8.
However, this left me both conflicted and confused... I wanted the V12 Carbon black interior (piano black all the way), I wanted a much improved paddle shifting setup (for possible track days should I choose), I wanted the 4.7L with just a bit more power and torque ....
all of a sudden... I realized what the perfect choice is ... The Vantage S
Here's why: It has the nicest interior of all the variants (better than standard V12, honestly even better than the Carbon Black V12 in some ways due to the cool "S" stitching). It has 10HP more & 15 ft lbs than the standard 4.7, along with an updated more aggressive exhaust note. The transmission has been upgraded to the new 7-speed Graziano sequential manual which supposedly is a far improved design based on the numerous video reviews I watched. Most raved about its improved performance. Although I love the idea of the 6spd manual, the V8s tend to have a notchy throw so this would in essence eliminate that, plus by having paddles it could be a decent track weapon (Looking for a different experience then the Lambo on track, again a more balanced package). Its newer and lower mileage. The Vantage S already comes with the upgraded 2-piece larger 380mm discs (which saves about $4k in parts & labor compared to aftermarket Brembo BBK upgrade). It has the upgraded wider wheels with better offset (not nearly as bad as the older narrower wheels). In addition ... the one thing that drove me nuts about the V12s is the gauge cluster was not the aluminum watch face gauges, but instead a simple black cluster like the DB9, which was a huge let down for me. By getting the Vantage S, you keep the V8 gauges but retain all the V12 carbon black interior styling cues (and then some). The Vantage S also has a much quicker steering rack (15:1 vs. 17:1), which is both ideal for track and more sporty & communicative for the road. Many of these chances would be prohibatively expensive to retrofit to an older 2009 and even if you could you would never retain the value. Furthermore, All of the vantage S are still under warranty and will be for quite some time.
And finally value, Many of the Vantage S are in the $110-115k range right now for very low mileage examples, that's only roughly 20k more than the cheapest of the 4.7s 2 years prior and yet its still a good 40k+ less than many of the V12s out there. To me it represents the best of both worlds for a very reasonable value IMO
Once I find one locally to test drive I will make my final decision. But, at least on paper ... it appears to be the #1 choice.
007
In my quest to decide on my perfect Aston for me, I test drove yet another Aston. I will again express my experience after test driving the car extensively as best I can. Remember, these are my opinions and do not necessarily represent 100% fact so please do not get offended, just trying to compare all the different variants against one another to find which one I feel to be the best balanced package.
The car I drove was a 2009 4.7L Coupe today with SportShift1 transmission. It had the sport pack 5 spoke wheels on it. This is the first time I had ever driven the speed shift so I was curious if it was really as bad as so many people claim.
Immediate impressions: TORQUE ... I was not expecting the 4.7L to have such a drastic difference than the 4.3L. What was even more impressive is that driving it back-to-back within just 2 days of the V12, I did not really feel as if the 4.7L was lacking by much in the torque department at all. Although the V12 obviously had more low end torque, I felt the 4.7Ls torque was far more usable in the sense that it did not light up the tires mercilessly in 1st gear like the V12 would.
Also, I was quite impressed how well balanced the entire power band was over all. It really is a case of Goldilocks' choice being "just right". Neither the HP nor TQ were too much relative to the other in any way. It had more than enough ample torque to be fun on the bottom end, and pulled hard all the way to redline in a smooth linear fashion. It honestly felt like it pulled harder than the V12, even in stock form.
Handling: The 4.7L in stock form obviously does not have the sportiest of suspension setups in the world. The compression was too soft and the rebound too slow. Alot of that could be attributed to the excessive rotating unsprung mass of the stock steel 1-piece rotors. Immediately jumping from V12 to the V8 you could tell majority of the quick responsiveness was due to the huge difference in rotating mass. If you were to get 2-piece rotors that would solve most of the problem (or come to another more profound conclusion, discussed in a little bit).
Interior: Updated look is definitely improved than the 4.3Ls although I feel like the 4.3Ls layout was simpler & more intuitive.
Transmission: After having done some homework before hand by reading a few of the reviews it seemed that most people compared the SS1 to BMW's single clutch SMG system. In some respects that is a big of a harsh comparison b/c SMG was crap, however, there is some merit to such a comparison. Although it was not absolutley horrible as many exclaim, it certainly did not match the refined sport nature of the car. The shifts were too laggy, slow respond time to paddle inputs, and during shifts it would hold too long. I wouldn't mind a paddle shift setup, but it would have to be superior to this (hint hint).
Overall, I was actually quite impressed with the 4.7L V8 compared to the 4.3L. In many respects I actually feel the 4.7L V8 is by far the most balanced package of the 3 variants. It may not have the ocean wave of torque as the V12, but I feel the torque it does have is better suited for the Vantage Chassis. In many ways, the V8 just feels like a much more natural choice than the V12 which honestly felt like it was shoehorned into the chassis. Not to say the V12 isn't great, it is of course, its just less balanced than the V8.
However, this left me both conflicted and confused... I wanted the V12 Carbon black interior (piano black all the way), I wanted a much improved paddle shifting setup (for possible track days should I choose), I wanted the 4.7L with just a bit more power and torque ....
all of a sudden... I realized what the perfect choice is ... The Vantage S
Here's why: It has the nicest interior of all the variants (better than standard V12, honestly even better than the Carbon Black V12 in some ways due to the cool "S" stitching). It has 10HP more & 15 ft lbs than the standard 4.7, along with an updated more aggressive exhaust note. The transmission has been upgraded to the new 7-speed Graziano sequential manual which supposedly is a far improved design based on the numerous video reviews I watched. Most raved about its improved performance. Although I love the idea of the 6spd manual, the V8s tend to have a notchy throw so this would in essence eliminate that, plus by having paddles it could be a decent track weapon (Looking for a different experience then the Lambo on track, again a more balanced package). Its newer and lower mileage. The Vantage S already comes with the upgraded 2-piece larger 380mm discs (which saves about $4k in parts & labor compared to aftermarket Brembo BBK upgrade). It has the upgraded wider wheels with better offset (not nearly as bad as the older narrower wheels). In addition ... the one thing that drove me nuts about the V12s is the gauge cluster was not the aluminum watch face gauges, but instead a simple black cluster like the DB9, which was a huge let down for me. By getting the Vantage S, you keep the V8 gauges but retain all the V12 carbon black interior styling cues (and then some). The Vantage S also has a much quicker steering rack (15:1 vs. 17:1), which is both ideal for track and more sporty & communicative for the road. Many of these chances would be prohibatively expensive to retrofit to an older 2009 and even if you could you would never retain the value. Furthermore, All of the vantage S are still under warranty and will be for quite some time.
And finally value, Many of the Vantage S are in the $110-115k range right now for very low mileage examples, that's only roughly 20k more than the cheapest of the 4.7s 2 years prior and yet its still a good 40k+ less than many of the V12s out there. To me it represents the best of both worlds for a very reasonable value IMO
Once I find one locally to test drive I will make my final decision. But, at least on paper ... it appears to be the #1 choice.
007
Last edited by 007 Vantage; 12-13-2012 at 04:55 PM.
#3
12-13-2012, 06:13 PM
I have the aluminum crowned gauges on my V12V. The piano black interior on my V12V seems to be pretty much identical to the V8VS; but as the AM interiors are all customizable, there are numerous variants for the interior.
I agree that traction on the V12V is probably one of the biggest hinderances on the performance numbers.
The V8VS is an extremely well sorted vehicle, and it is primarily because the weight balance is perfect compared to the front heavier V12V.
I think that if the V8VS had the carbon ceramic brakes, the slightly lower & stiffer suspension setup of the V12V, the lighter forged wheels, and the dual disk 6 speed manual; it would be a real toss-up between the two cars.
However; more than the performance numbers on the V12V, it was the "feeling" and driving experience that sealed the deal for me.
Prior to owning the V12V, I had a twin turbocharged C5 corvette (648 rwhp), a GenIV viper with bolt-ons (long tubes, ported upper & lower intake, ported heads, etc.,), ZR1 corvette, and numerous early model muscle cars.
I had also test drove and considered a 2009 scuderia coupe, 2010 superleggera, 2012 SLS AMG, and a 2012 R8 GT.
Other than the V12V, the scuderia topped my list. It was brutally fast and almost scary at high rpm shifts, but it was also brutal to drive. It was more race car than street car, and was more like a high tech watch; gadgets and high tech wizardry. It did however, have the most amazing exhaust note at around 8,200 to 9,000 rpms.
The superleggera (my third favourite) had the nicest interior of all (with the exception of the V12V), and it was also very fast (not quite scuderia fast, but fast). It was also far more friendly as a street car than the scuderia, but it's only drawback for me was the fact that it was just too outrageous looking; almost cartoonish. I felt that it would simply start to look outdated in a short period of time.
My fourth choice was the Audi R8 GT. Great performance, excellent street car manners (very Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde), and a decent interior. For me personally the exterior styling initially struck me as wonderfully different, but after walking around the car a number of times and after driving the car a few times; I just sort of tired of it. Another down side was because my daughter drives a 2010 VW Tiguan. Every time I got into the R8 the controls and dash just felt very VW. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as the VW controls are very good; but it just didn't feel right in a $200k supercar.
The merc was also a very fast and capable sports car, but it just felt very blah. The car just had no soul and felt very assembly line. It had much less "joie de vivre" than my ZR1.
When I visited the AM dealer; from the second I sat in the V12V, inserted the crystal ECU, and had my first drive, it was an immediate feelng of driving nirvanah. Sure it wasn't s fast or sorted as the scud, wasn't as outlandish as the superleggara, wasn't as composed of a daily driver as the R8; but the overall combination of the V12 sound, smell and touch of the interior, bottom end torque, the "connected" feeling of the 6 spd., and the timeless looks of the V12 vantage almost immediately clinched the deal. When I first started the engine, my wife was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open. The initial roar or bark from the exhaust reminded her of our old pan head harley.
Nowadays; more power can easily be made through the aftermarket, and exterior touches can also be made through the aftermarket, but the overall combination, feeling, and rush in one package like the V12V is pretty rare.
So far I've owned 37 different vehicles in my lifetime, but the only test drive I can truly remember is the V12V. Every time I even open the door, the smell of the connoly leather brings me back to the very first drive.
You just can't buy that every day.
Just my .02
I agree that traction on the V12V is probably one of the biggest hinderances on the performance numbers.
The V8VS is an extremely well sorted vehicle, and it is primarily because the weight balance is perfect compared to the front heavier V12V.
I think that if the V8VS had the carbon ceramic brakes, the slightly lower & stiffer suspension setup of the V12V, the lighter forged wheels, and the dual disk 6 speed manual; it would be a real toss-up between the two cars.
However; more than the performance numbers on the V12V, it was the "feeling" and driving experience that sealed the deal for me.
Prior to owning the V12V, I had a twin turbocharged C5 corvette (648 rwhp), a GenIV viper with bolt-ons (long tubes, ported upper & lower intake, ported heads, etc.,), ZR1 corvette, and numerous early model muscle cars.
I had also test drove and considered a 2009 scuderia coupe, 2010 superleggera, 2012 SLS AMG, and a 2012 R8 GT.
Other than the V12V, the scuderia topped my list. It was brutally fast and almost scary at high rpm shifts, but it was also brutal to drive. It was more race car than street car, and was more like a high tech watch; gadgets and high tech wizardry. It did however, have the most amazing exhaust note at around 8,200 to 9,000 rpms.
The superleggera (my third favourite) had the nicest interior of all (with the exception of the V12V), and it was also very fast (not quite scuderia fast, but fast). It was also far more friendly as a street car than the scuderia, but it's only drawback for me was the fact that it was just too outrageous looking; almost cartoonish. I felt that it would simply start to look outdated in a short period of time.
My fourth choice was the Audi R8 GT. Great performance, excellent street car manners (very Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde), and a decent interior. For me personally the exterior styling initially struck me as wonderfully different, but after walking around the car a number of times and after driving the car a few times; I just sort of tired of it. Another down side was because my daughter drives a 2010 VW Tiguan. Every time I got into the R8 the controls and dash just felt very VW. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as the VW controls are very good; but it just didn't feel right in a $200k supercar.
The merc was also a very fast and capable sports car, but it just felt very blah. The car just had no soul and felt very assembly line. It had much less "joie de vivre" than my ZR1.
When I visited the AM dealer; from the second I sat in the V12V, inserted the crystal ECU, and had my first drive, it was an immediate feelng of driving nirvanah. Sure it wasn't s fast or sorted as the scud, wasn't as outlandish as the superleggara, wasn't as composed of a daily driver as the R8; but the overall combination of the V12 sound, smell and touch of the interior, bottom end torque, the "connected" feeling of the 6 spd., and the timeless looks of the V12 vantage almost immediately clinched the deal. When I first started the engine, my wife was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open. The initial roar or bark from the exhaust reminded her of our old pan head harley.
Nowadays; more power can easily be made through the aftermarket, and exterior touches can also be made through the aftermarket, but the overall combination, feeling, and rush in one package like the V12V is pretty rare.
So far I've owned 37 different vehicles in my lifetime, but the only test drive I can truly remember is the V12V. Every time I even open the door, the smell of the connoly leather brings me back to the very first drive.
You just can't buy that every day.
Just my .02
#4
12-13-2012, 10:15 PM
DB9 a huge let down... What
! Ugh you're jus mean! 
... Glad you found a car you like, looks like you've all but made up your mind, V8VS is a great car for sure ... I do like the vantage, my pick would have a V12 but Im partial always loved the Aston V12, the engine roar, the exhaust note and silky smooth power and gobs of torque ... I like the DB series, I wanted a GT car with a sporting edge and my DB9 w sport pack and manual gearbox was perfect, I was looking at v12v, DB9, and DBS during my search and found what I was looking for, looks like you are on a quest and the more you drive the clearer your choice and what you're looking for will surface 
! Ugh you're jus mean! ... Glad you found a car you like, looks like you've all but made up your mind, V8VS is a great car for sure ... I do like the vantage, my pick would have a V12 but Im partial always loved the Aston V12, the engine roar, the exhaust note and silky smooth power and gobs of torque ... I like the DB series, I wanted a GT car with a sporting edge and my DB9 w sport pack and manual gearbox was perfect, I was looking at v12v, DB9, and DBS during my search and found what I was looking for, looks like you are on a quest and the more you drive the clearer your choice and what you're looking for will surface
#5
12-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Regarding the instruments, I'm guessing 007 meant the DBS rather than '9, since the DBS has the darker instruments. BTW, I agree -- IMO the bright-finish instruments are absolutely gorgeous, and much of that is lost with the "graphite" finish.
#6
12-13-2012, 10:59 PM
007,
Glad to hear you may have found your answer. One question -- did the 4.7 you drove have just the Sports Pack wheels (but the standard suspension), or did it have the full Sports Pack (including the Sports Pack suspension)?
Glad to hear you may have found your answer. One question -- did the 4.7 you drove have just the Sports Pack wheels (but the standard suspension), or did it have the full Sports Pack (including the Sports Pack suspension)?
#7
12-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,765
Rep Power: 95
@sunir: just the gauges! Lol, the car itself is great.
The standard V12s I have sat in have not had the same clusters as my V8, I have no idea why, most are the black gauges which are not as interesting looking. I know its a small detail but to me it's an important subjective choice.
@speedraser: that's what I was trying to determine, I feel as if it was just sport pack wheels on stock suspension, but I was not sure. It was at a Benz dealership and they had no clue. Felt like my stock 4.3 suspension so I assume wheels were just there for looks.
I love the V12, it's amazing, but I finally realized its not for me. Also, I realized the V12 I REALLY want is the all new Vanquish with the all new exterior and interior revisions. It may be a couple years before I get into that. So I am not canceling my Aston V12 just postponing it, I am merely pushing it down the road a few years and in the mean time I will enjoy the V8VS.
I do actually plan on tracking it, I think it would do great, I want to track a front mid-engine car, I feel like it would be way more balanced than my 2wd Gallardo, which feels almost like a GT3RS in its weight distribution.
More updates to come
The standard V12s I have sat in have not had the same clusters as my V8, I have no idea why, most are the black gauges which are not as interesting looking. I know its a small detail but to me it's an important subjective choice.
@speedraser: that's what I was trying to determine, I feel as if it was just sport pack wheels on stock suspension, but I was not sure. It was at a Benz dealership and they had no clue. Felt like my stock 4.3 suspension so I assume wheels were just there for looks.
I love the V12, it's amazing, but I finally realized its not for me. Also, I realized the V12 I REALLY want is the all new Vanquish with the all new exterior and interior revisions. It may be a couple years before I get into that. So I am not canceling my Aston V12 just postponing it, I am merely pushing it down the road a few years and in the mean time I will enjoy the V8VS.
I do actually plan on tracking it, I think it would do great, I want to track a front mid-engine car, I feel like it would be way more balanced than my 2wd Gallardo, which feels almost like a GT3RS in its weight distribution.
More updates to come
Last edited by 007 Vantage; 12-14-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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#8
12-14-2012, 02:59 AM
Welcome to my world! 
Ironically I went from a 4.7 with Sport Pack to an S, I could not get on with the V12V and struggled with the manual and light weight seats combination.
Plus I prefer a roadster (yes I know there is a V12VR now
)
ASM1 is not too bad so long as you do regular clutch learns and avoid "creep mode", many owners just don't bother and it screws it up.
The tweaks to the S make it VERY different to a pre MY13 4.7 sport pack car. I made two performance additions to mine - specing the newer light Sport Pack wheels and light weight CF seats
It is much more agile with out being too harsh. We recently did a 4800 miles tour round France in 17 days - superb
I know photos go down well so here you go!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/8000905999/http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/8000905999/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/25369163@N08/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/7992576234/http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/7992576234/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/25369163@N08/, on Flickr
Ironically I went from a 4.7 with Sport Pack to an S, I could not get on with the V12V and struggled with the manual and light weight seats combination.
Plus I prefer a roadster (yes I know there is a V12VR now
)ASM1 is not too bad so long as you do regular clutch learns and avoid "creep mode", many owners just don't bother and it screws it up.
The tweaks to the S make it VERY different to a pre MY13 4.7 sport pack car. I made two performance additions to mine - specing the newer light Sport Pack wheels and light weight CF seats
It is much more agile with out being too harsh. We recently did a 4800 miles tour round France in 17 days - superb
I know photos go down well so here you go!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/8000905999/http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/8000905999/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/25369163@N08/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/7992576234/http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/7992576234/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/25369163@N08/, on Flickr
#9
12-16-2012, 06:57 PM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,765
Rep Power: 95
Thanks for the great input, ya it seems the 4.7 S 2012 models year + may be the best. I am confused as to when all the new changes happened to the vantage S.
So the 2011 is not the same as the 2012 model?
So the 2011 is not the same as the 2012 model?
#10
12-16-2012, 10:08 PM
007,
I'd guess that if the 4.7 you drove felt a lot like the 4.3 (suspension-wise) then it probably had the standard suspension -- the Sports Pack has a clearly different feel.
About the S, it hasn't changed mechanically since it was introduced -- it's just the little model year things, like the rear-view camera and automatic wipers for '13.
I'd guess that if the 4.7 you drove felt a lot like the 4.3 (suspension-wise) then it probably had the standard suspension -- the Sports Pack has a clearly different feel.
About the S, it hasn't changed mechanically since it was introduced -- it's just the little model year things, like the rear-view camera and automatic wipers for '13.
#11
12-17-2012, 09:56 AM
007,
I'd guess that if the 4.7 you drove felt a lot like the 4.3 (suspension-wise) then it probably had the standard suspension -- the Sports Pack has a clearly different feel.
About the S, it hasn't changed mechanically since it was introduced -- it's just the little model year things, like the rear-view camera and automatic wipers for '13.
I'd guess that if the 4.7 you drove felt a lot like the 4.3 (suspension-wise) then it probably had the standard suspension -- the Sports Pack has a clearly different feel.
About the S, it hasn't changed mechanically since it was introduced -- it's just the little model year things, like the rear-view camera and automatic wipers for '13.
the auto headlights and the option of a reversing camera have come in only incredibly recently, certianly no more than a few months ago, as part of some general spec changes to the entire vantage range, as you say as part of the '13 model year
#12
12-17-2012, 09:11 PM
Also Intermittent wipers were added to the '13's, and I believe these changes were also made to the DB9's.
#15
12-19-2012, 09:14 AM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,765
Rep Power: 95
Ok, I will shoot for a 2012 model. They have come down significantly in price and seem to be the best balanced package overall.
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