http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=28676

I love Aston's "logic" for justifying the use of outdated tech. The real benefit of the latest ZF 8 speed autos is not the extra gears (which, as stated, is a questionable 'benefit'), but the shift speeds and improved rev matching on downshifts. I just took delivery of an XFR-S to replace my XFR, and the shift speeds are truly impressive for a slush box, with a nice ignition cut and accompanying fart on upshifts, and a flare of revs preceding each downshift. I was similarly impressed with a drive in an auto 335i earlier this summer. The upshifts are pretty much as good as a DCT; the downshifts are not quite there, but are a big improvement over the last ten ZF 6 speed. Maybe it's all software programming as opposed to mechanical changes - if so, it's time Aston updated theirs!

 

I have a 335i with the dual clutch (DCT) transmission as my daily driver. And my Vantage has an antique, manual 6 speed transmission that I have to row myself. So I get to go back and forth betwixt the two on a frequent basis to compare.

The BMW gearbox is a marvel of technology and software ingenuity. You can never over-rev the car, it always picks the right gear and no way can any human keep up with it shifting. It's BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM so fast that there has to be just microseconds in the delay. Dual Clutch indeed - it works but its best to just let the computer do it all and stay off the paddle shifters for max performance.

The Aston gearbox is slow, and if you're doing track days there's that little gremlin on your shoulder whispering in your ear "....money shift...be careful....gonna be real expensive if you to to 1st instead of 3rd for T1...." However there is satisfaction in controlling the machinery as the operator to get it to do what you want, when you want it rather than some lines of software code taking over for you.

Of the two in my garage, the Aston has the right gearbox. Check the Manual option next time you buy one!

 

Duane, my V12V has a 6 speed manual, you don't need to convince me it is the right transmission for the car! The whole point of my post was to question Aston's choice for their cars with automatic trans (DB9, Vanquish, Rapide).

BTW does your 335i really have DCT? I thought they only came with the ZF 8 speed automatic or a 6 speed manual.

 

The 335is had the DCT option, I don't think the 335i does. But I thought Duane has a 135i?? DUANE WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING

 

Have you driven a Vanquish? If not, do so before you pass judgement on the latest ZF6. Upshifts and downshifts are great, just as you describe for the XKR-S, IMO.

 

I too just drove the F-type V8S last week and I am astonished that an automatic can shift THAT fast. It's honestly faster than most single clutch sequential transmissions. The only flaw I felt in the transmission was no rev matching on downshifts. Other then that its as close to perfect as an auto can get. And from a cost complexity standpoint it is even better for OEMS than dual clutch setups. If they figure out how to downshift rev match smoothly (just software revision)... Then automated clutch transmissions are in trouble!

 

Have not driven a new Vanquish. Is there a significant difference from Touchtronic II on the DBS? All the videos I have watched suggest to me that there is still a relatively slow shift speed compared to my ZF 8 speed.

BTW the XKR-S has the old 6 speed ZF auto my XFR had. The XFR-S has the 8 speed used in the F type as driven by 007.

@007: interesting you say "no rev matching". I have not driven an F-type but my XFR-S rev matches. It is not as good as the rev matching on a DCT or even the best automated, single clutch manuals, but it does smooth out the downshift noticeably better than the ZF 6 speed auto did.

 

I've heard the transmission feel in Astons has a lot to do with the heavy flywheel/clutch they use. Switching to lighter twin plate clutch supposedly helps a bunch.

BTW I test drove Vanquish and was not impressed with the transmission as well.

 

I've driven the Vanquish II and hated the gearbox. It felt slow as molasses. No matter what mode the car was in, it felt like a committee had to decide when the gear shift requested would be executed. When I drove the new F-Type I was truly impressed at how good they made their slush box. If I had to have an automatic, I would want it to be like the Jag's.

 

Definitely not what I would consider rev matching, on downshifts it would still bog and jerk forward as the torque converter dragged and tried to catch up. AMG did true rev matching on the 7spd autos just before their MCTs came about a few years ago. It requires sophisticated software revisions but it is possible.

I am sure in time they will. Essentially you have to trick the auto to shift into neutral, rev match perfectly, then reengage the transmissionmat the right Rpm.

Overall I am blown away but the autos performance, the ZF8spd is slowly making the single clutch obsolete. It will never beat a true DCT but its a great alternative for manufacturers.

The thing that blew me away the most was how many damn gears there are lol. At 70mph in 8th gear I was spinning 1500rpm in the jag!! Insanely low

 

In the 1 series BMW, the 128i has an automatic transmission through all the years. The 135i has an automatic through 2011, but in 2012 they put the DCT in all 135i models (but not the 128i).

Hey, the 135i is QUICK with the //M pak on it. You boyz wouldn't want to challenge me around Summit Point in your puny V8 Vantages, you might get shamed! I use it or my beater F-250 for my daily driver...no way my Vantage is parked out in the lot all day where I work...I'd have a little fit if it got all door-dinged up.

My F250 has a manual trans with non-syncro first gear. It's hugely entertaining to drive and speed shifts are out of the question. Plus it has advanced parking sensors on it. When you hit the item you're backing to...you're there.

 

Ah... 135i, not 335. Great car, certainly truer to the original driving machine ethos than the latest 3er, which seems to be aiming more at the luxury market than the sports side of things. LOL re: the F250. One of my first cars was an old Jetta with weak synchros... fond memories of trying to perfect clutchless shifts!

 

In sport mode, I found the shifts on the Vanquish to occur right when requested, up or down, including very good rev matching on downshifts. I liked it a lot. It was way, way faster than TT2.

 

One of the most fun cars I've driven was a 1985 Honda Civic Wagon with a manual transmission. It was just simple, goofy fun

 

[QUOTE=drcollie;3979757]In the 1 series BMW, the 128i has an automatic transmission through all the years. The 135i has an automatic through 2011, but in 2012 they put the DCT in all 135i models (but not the 128i).

Hey, the 135i is QUICK with the //M pak on it. You boyz wouldn't want to challenge me around Summit Point in your puny V8 Vantages, you might get shamed!



oh ya the bimmer is quick but only for 2 laps when it over heats and goes into limp mode