Tracking Vantage - Thoughts ?
#47
04-30-2014, 10:43 AM
Ive raced them, (PFC-01) and have them on a car now that is used on the street sometimes too. slightly more aggressive than pagid black RS14s, and less fade in extreme use. interesting they didn't sqeak on the street like the blacks did. I liked them. however they still had some fade at the end of the high speed straights into slow turns. so, im going to the most aggressive pad out there, the ST41 raybestos. everyone has been telling me to try them, so im giving them a shot next race weekend.
Last edited by XWCGT; 04-30-2014 at 11:42 AM.
#49
04-30-2014, 11:23 PM
actually, I think the calipers are very close to big reds, maybe a little larger. bottom line, here are the calipers I race with, same as that come on the F50 Ferrari. (and the ferrari comes stock with 14" rotors as well) (and the Porsche rotors are upgraded in the pic to 13" diam vs their stock 12".) our calipers are way more caplable on the AMv8 vs the porsche or ferrari F50 . pad comparison for your review.
Last edited by XWCGT; 05-01-2014 at 09:05 AM.
#50
05-01-2014, 02:29 AM
thats not true , and certainly at least is debatable. I would take that race any day of the week. ..... same tire compound, brake material, all other things stock, the wider vantage with its near same HP weight ratio, but broader HP curve, would win out. I see those things on the track all the time.... they are not particularly fast. a stock AMV8 on a good set of DOTs would be very fast. it boils down to a few major points. 400hp/3400lb 8.5Hp/weight ratio, (or 10:1 if you use RWHP) and g holding of over 1.3g..
I would spank any stock Exige, no matter who was driving.
the exige is 190ish hp , 160 RWHP and 2015lbs 12.5 Hp/weight. it would get Slaughtered in the straights of turns, etc. It comes with tiny tires. 175/225 aspect ratio tires. Pinners! the fact that its 2000lbs is great, like miatas, but the tire size is a huge limitation. these are near 5" rims folks!... don't get me wrong, its a great car. ive driven one at the track. lots of fun... but no match for a AMV8, which is a true supercar and has been since it came out. In all honesty, in a real race , it might be close but the Aston would win for sure..... (unless we are talking autocross . )
a little bit of a reality check..... in the spec mustang series... the mustangs are running 2:01 at Thunderhill California. no stock exige has even gotten near close to this time. the spec mustang is a stock mustang with bolt on suspension, cage , etc, and gutted but still is near 3300lbs. HP is in the 310rwph range and they run on a DOT tire. The AM as a street car, would be near this spec, and would not need any special "Bits" that the mustang has, to be a race car.... the AM already has these bits..... all it would really need is the stiffer suspension, to really compete, but as is stock, would be able to hang with the mustangs, albeit just behind them I would imagine having driven both. Ill have to post some incar footage of a very old stock , gutted 250rwhp Porsche 928 vs a exige in one of those hooked on driving DE/ race weekends.
EDIT: Here is that video. you can see the lotus gets crushed down the straights, but is a little more maneuverable in the turns. the 928 is 2700lbs but only 250rwhp so its 10.5:1 about HP to weight. The times that these guys are running are not that fast. 2:04-5ish at thunderhill. both drivers are relatively new but pretty good for their experience and about equal. As the aston vantage is stock, it could run with these cars on DOTs and with some race brake pads.
But the point of all this is, do you really want to beat up an aston as a track car?? no , of course not. but, the point is, it is a capable track car as good as anything in its HP to weight range.
Now this is Pod Racing: Lotus Elise vs Porsche 928 at Thunderhill - YouTube
from the inside of the 928. (brian 928 vs Rob Lotus)
NCRC Race 1 4-28-13 928 vs Lotus - YouTube
I would spank any stock Exige, no matter who was driving.
the exige is 190ish hp , 160 RWHP and 2015lbs 12.5 Hp/weight. it would get Slaughtered in the straights of turns, etc. It comes with tiny tires. 175/225 aspect ratio tires. Pinners! the fact that its 2000lbs is great, like miatas, but the tire size is a huge limitation. these are near 5" rims folks!... don't get me wrong, its a great car. ive driven one at the track. lots of fun... but no match for a AMV8, which is a true supercar and has been since it came out. In all honesty, in a real race , it might be close but the Aston would win for sure..... (unless we are talking autocross . )a little bit of a reality check..... in the spec mustang series... the mustangs are running 2:01 at Thunderhill California. no stock exige has even gotten near close to this time. the spec mustang is a stock mustang with bolt on suspension, cage , etc, and gutted but still is near 3300lbs. HP is in the 310rwph range and they run on a DOT tire. The AM as a street car, would be near this spec, and would not need any special "Bits" that the mustang has, to be a race car.... the AM already has these bits..... all it would really need is the stiffer suspension, to really compete, but as is stock, would be able to hang with the mustangs, albeit just behind them I would imagine having driven both. Ill have to post some incar footage of a very old stock , gutted 250rwhp Porsche 928 vs a exige in one of those hooked on driving DE/ race weekends.
EDIT: Here is that video. you can see the lotus gets crushed down the straights, but is a little more maneuverable in the turns. the 928 is 2700lbs but only 250rwhp so its 10.5:1 about HP to weight. The times that these guys are running are not that fast. 2:04-5ish at thunderhill. both drivers are relatively new but pretty good for their experience and about equal. As the aston vantage is stock, it could run with these cars on DOTs and with some race brake pads.
But the point of all this is, do you really want to beat up an aston as a track car?? no , of course not. but, the point is, it is a capable track car as good as anything in its HP to weight range.
Now this is Pod Racing: Lotus Elise vs Porsche 928 at Thunderhill - YouTube
from the inside of the 928. (brian 928 vs Rob Lotus)
NCRC Race 1 4-28-13 928 vs Lotus - YouTube
All I'm saying, is that for an equivalent driver, I do feel that an Exige would outperform the Vantage. I'm sure the Vantage would be fun though.
I just don't see people running Astons on track at HPDE's or club races.
Last edited by plastique999; 05-01-2014 at 02:31 AM.
#51
05-01-2014, 05:54 AM
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Ive run a 1:48 at Laguna seca (as fast as a championship winning spec miata if you dont know laguna seca) with absolutely no brakes (Zero) with my race car on DOTs. its all about gear changes, trail braking, (or early turn in with no brakes), and using the turns to slow you down to the apex.
Bottom-line... beginner in performance driving...take a driving school approach with Hooked on Driving or comparable safety oriented track day organizer with your car as-is. No upgrades needed to a V8V for that level of experience.
If you decide to play more aggressively or regularly, then get performance brake pads, high temp fluid and a set of track wheels/tires and have a blast...
I am about to pilot a GT4 V8V at Sears Point which is fully race car prepped...that should be too much fun...
#52
05-01-2014, 07:10 AM
I fully agree with you about tracking the Vantage with the stock brakes. That's the point I made in the beginning of this thread. The stock brakes are ok for an occasional track day but are not up to hard driving without pads and fluid. They are not racing brakes in stock form and it is misleading to those who have never tracked a Vantage to make them think different. They also need to be aware of the high cost of tracking an Aston compared to many other cars.
Good luck at Sears Point. My first racing school was there back in 95 and I love that track.
Good luck at Sears Point. My first racing school was there back in 95 and I love that track.
#53
05-01-2014, 07:36 AM
I am having difficulties with your zero brakes claim at Laguna... zero going downhill into turn two from well over 100 to 40MPH...the same entering the corkscrew and turn 11? Your race car must have superb engine braking to achieve that...exactly what car do you have?
Bottom-line... beginner in performance driving...take a driving school approach with Hooked on Driving or comparable safety oriented track day organizer with your car as-is. No upgrades needed to a V8V for that level of experience.
If you decide to play more aggressively or regularly, then get performance brake pads, high temp fluid and a set of track wheels/tires and have a blast...
I am about to pilot a GT4 V8V at Sears Point which is fully race car prepped...that should be too much fun...
Bottom-line... beginner in performance driving...take a driving school approach with Hooked on Driving or comparable safety oriented track day organizer with your car as-is. No upgrades needed to a V8V for that level of experience.
If you decide to play more aggressively or regularly, then get performance brake pads, high temp fluid and a set of track wheels/tires and have a blast...
I am about to pilot a GT4 V8V at Sears Point which is fully race car prepped...that should be too much fun...
Now a GT4 sounds fun!!!
#54
05-01-2014, 07:50 AM
back to the OP's original question (before 4 pages of unrelated debate): DO IT! if you never tried a HPDE day, join one like PCA's or BMW's or Audi's club and go in green. you will have a blast. I had friends track their sedans and loved it, your AM will be more then fine if you are a newb who just wants the try it. Put in new brake fluid, buy a helmet and go
#55
05-01-2014, 08:45 AM
You mentioned that you ran a 1:48 at Laguna in the Vantage? I was running 1:44 in a supercharged Elise when I ran LotusCupUSA there a couple years back (SC Elise is similar to an Exige in terms of power to weight...I was at about 220rwhp).
All I'm saying, is that for an equivalent driver, I do feel that an Exige would outperform the Vantage. I'm sure the Vantage would be fun though.
I just don't see people running Astons on track at HPDE's or club races.
All I'm saying, is that for an equivalent driver, I do feel that an Exige would outperform the Vantage. I'm sure the Vantage would be fun though.
I just don't see people running Astons on track at HPDE's or club races.
The 928 in the track video , (the white 928 vs elise), ive driven that package to a 1:42 at laguna on DOTs at 280rwhp)
If i was to guess, the vantage could run a low 1:40ish on street tires as is. certainly, a 1:45 with out much fuss. Ive only had it out one time during an event where i was instructing a guy in a DB9 and a guy in a 997TT. the car feels lke a race car, with leather interior on crappy tires.
#56
05-01-2014, 08:55 AM
So that's the point of all this. to show that the performance of the vantage is not compromised at all by its stock brakes.. they are in fact racing brakes , and if anyone is feeling like they are not doing the job, under any circumstances, they should look to their pads or driving technique.
#57
05-01-2014, 09:02 AM
I am having difficulties with your zero brakes claim at Laguna... zero going downhill into turn two from well over 100 to 40MPH...the same entering the corkscrew and turn 11? Your race car must have superb engine braking to achieve that...exactly what car do you have?
Bottom-line... beginner in performance driving...take a driving school approach with Hooked on Driving or comparable safety oriented track day organizer with your car as-is. No upgrades needed to a V8V for that level of experience.
If you decide to play more aggressively or regularly, then get performance brake pads, high temp fluid and a set of track wheels/tires and have a blast...
I am about to pilot a GT4 V8V at Sears Point which is fully race car prepped...that should be too much fun...
Bottom-line... beginner in performance driving...take a driving school approach with Hooked on Driving or comparable safety oriented track day organizer with your car as-is. No upgrades needed to a V8V for that level of experience.
If you decide to play more aggressively or regularly, then get performance brake pads, high temp fluid and a set of track wheels/tires and have a blast...
I am about to pilot a GT4 V8V at Sears Point which is fully race car prepped...that should be too much fun...
your absolutely right with the advice. Hooked on Driving is an organization run by a guy that came out and started racing with us a few years ago. Great group to run with and it offers great instruction. the Vantage will be absolutly a dream to drive in these kind of events with no mods. it has good fluid in it stock, and the brakes are large enough to handle any event with little issue (again , the brakes are pretty massive compared to most cars, being that they slightly larger than Big Red porsche brakes.
) private messge me and ill send you the link to the "no brakes" laguna 1:48 lap.
Yes, the GT4 at sears coming up in a few months would be fun. TRG has been jones'in me to go out to the next event. seriously considering going out there to test the car.
#58
05-01-2014, 09:09 AM
back to the OP's original question (before 4 pages of unrelated debate): DO IT! if you never tried a HPDE day, join one like PCA's or BMW's or Audi's club and go in green. you will have a blast. I had friends track their sedans and loved it, your AM will be more then fine if you are a newb who just wants the try it. Put in new brake fluid, buy a helmet and go
just go out there and run the car...... great advice. and that was the point of All the debate... there are no weak links or valid excuses to not take the vantage to the track. It's a pure bred race car with no weak links. however, it can be expensive to run and fix.
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