Hi,

I'm wondering if it is possible to modify the SS3 in an V12VS to a dog leg manual since the Graziano transmission is the same?
It is straightforward with the BMW e46 M3 SMG to manual what is basically the same technology. The only mechanical change is the holder for a spring on the transmission.

I understand shifter, shifter cables, middle console, waterfall (to remove the buttons) and of course a clutch paddle and programming.

Anyone know what else would be required?
Has anyone done this before?

I remember there was a thread about a v8v but this ended nowhere. The v12vs are plenty around as automatics but dogleg are rare.

Cheers

 

Now this is interesting! I suspect it will be fairly complicated but would love to know what's involved

Graze

 

+1

I already have a dogleg V12VS, but am interested in this just to see it happen...1 of 1, not just 1 of 100
I suspect much easier than the 991.1 GT3RS PDK to manual conversion a fellow RL'er did 3 years ago!

 

I'd ask the Velocity guys or one of the other Aston vendors. @VelocityAP_Chris

 

The internal bits of the gearbox are not the same, if you were to mount all the linkage it will not shift correctly. I believe it was on here before with the 4.7 SS II 7-speed asking the same question. Lots of parts and cost involved then you need PCMs flashed for a manual. Easy $35+K to convert.

 

I’m doing that at the moment with an E46 M3 and its not really difficult. If the gearbox internals are the same I don’t think it would be that hard. The hardest part would likely be programming the ECU.

 

I emailed Graziano and hope to get some answers.
I doubt they developed two different transmissions for the same applications. The development cost would be outrageous for such a small production number.

Wasn't the Aston Martin factory swap for the old Vanquish 30k what included a complete new T56 transmission and complete new dashboard since the buttons were in the dashboard?
If transmission can be salvaged for that job, It's hard to believe the cost would exceed the Vanquish factory swap.

 

The V12 Vanquish you're referring to has a standard engine and gearbox layout. Its quite "easy" to swap a gearbox there. Its probably a $5k swap that they are charging $30k for. But a modern Vantage or DB9 uses a rear transaxle. So no T56 or any other "standard" gearbox is going there. You could probably use the transaxle out of a wrecked Corvette C8 maybe but I'm not sure about that.

 

2005 Aston Martin Vanquish S - Engine & Transmission

VH Platform (DB9, V12 Vantage etc...)

 

I tend to agree - at least for the older six speeder, which was most likely designed as a manual from the beginning, with the hydroelectricly automated gear selection as afterthought.
AFAIK, all mechanical gearboxes use shift forks to move the cogs, operated with a 2-directional movement (sideways&front/rear, H-pattern manuals) or a rotating drum with gateways (motorcycles, sequentials). The "old-style" automated manuals (like BMW SMG) simply use 2 hydraulic actuators to acheive the 2-directional movement.

 

Just going off the 6-speed Graziano ..ASM vs Manual, the transaxle is different internally.

The manual shift has thicker/beefier shifter linkages while the ASM has thinner parts that meet up with the hydraulic s-cam unit.

The 7-speed manual mechanism is an ASM modfified to allow the 7-speed linkage to pair while still maintaining the hall effect sensor used on ASM.. With that said, you can only get this shifter mechanism by ordering a manual 7-speed transaxle.

Also, if you had a 6-speed ASM and wanted to fit a manual shift on tap, the hole for the shifter mechanism would need to be enlarged a nice amount to fit the manual shifter into place.

Basically, the transaxles are not the same from 6-speed ASM vs Manual, and 7-speed ASM vs Manual....

If you wanted to convert your 7-Speed ASM, you would either CNC/CAD your own parts that pair with the ASM transaxle OR buy a complete new 7-speed manual transaxle.

 

^ Amazing insight. Thanks for the input.

 

Thanks for this!

I got an answer from the managing director of Graziano :

 

Gaziano can do the modification on the transmission in the UK.
Project cost is $6.500 for the dogleg change. The main cost is the shifter mechanism which is no longer in production.

Means the car (or the transmission) needs to be shipped across the pond.

This means the project is not senseless at all. While ECU tune, pedal, shifter, shifter cables, middle console, waterfall prices are still need to be acquired, (lets estimate 10k)
remove/ Install tranny, shipping tranny(estimate ~4k) would be $20.500 for the complete SS to Dog leg project

While the dog leg V12 vs in the US starts at ~160k, you can buy a automatic v12vs easy in the 80's.
The benefit is that the SS cars are in all colors and options to pick from.

With this mod you have a dog leg V12vs for around 100k.
I will continue to gather the rest of costs to get a better picture.

 

If OP wanted an exact functioning clone of the 7-speed manual cars, it would take some work with modules. That's unless features like rev matching was ignored and not programmed, then just some editing of engine file is possible.

If rev matching like the oem built cars is desired then odds are a dealer visit and some hookup with Gaydon would be required..maybe a project with Q? The OEM file has mapping for rev matching, so if a read was done of a car equipped, this file could in theory be adapted into OP's car but then modules like CEM and DIM would not be possible to program by tuner, so an AMDS with those files would be needed and someone to rework the CEM config file.

I'm not bashing the project, I think it's awesome..but my view, $20k is really on the low side to make an exact OEM 7-speed dogleg+electronics functioning retrofit. That's unless OP's an expert in C++ and have the ability to decompile hex, doing this work themselves, leaving Gaydon out of the price OR use aftermarket items to blip/rev match the throttle and don't have the DIM showing the upshift/downshift msgs...etc.

All depends on how exact OP wants this retrofit to function like the OEM built dogleg vehicles.