Ceramic to Steel brakes?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 532
From: Las Vegas, NV
Rep Power: 37
If you do a lot of track days, the ceramics wear out and are ultra expensive to replace. Also, carbon rotors can be damaged if you wash your wheels on the car, which makes routine car washes more troublesome. And with R4-S pads, the steels don't dust that badly.
According to the book, the CC rotors are 398mm, compared to the OEM steel rotors being 380... so you couldn't just put OEM steels in. However, you could measure the carbon ceramic rotor dimensions and get some blanks to bolt to the existing rotor hat... that would probably work. I'd reach out to these guys and discuss fitment... apparently, the 430 Scuderia uses 398mm front carbon ceramics, as well.
According to the book, the CC rotors are 398mm, compared to the OEM steel rotors being 380... so you couldn't just put OEM steels in. However, you could measure the carbon ceramic rotor dimensions and get some blanks to bolt to the existing rotor hat... that would probably work. I'd reach out to these guys and discuss fitment... apparently, the 430 Scuderia uses 398mm front carbon ceramics, as well.
Last edited by Mathman85; Mar 23, 2020 at 04:32 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 843
From: pluto
Rep Power: 59
I doubt you'll find anyone that makes "steel" brake rotors. Cast iron, on the other hand... ;-)
Why do you want to switch them? I'm a big fan of CCM brakes on a street car, especially the way they are engineered on the V12V(S). I prefer the pedal feel, there is no question of their ability to stand up to any punishment you might inflict on them, and as Prefurbia says, no dust!
Why do you want to switch them? I'm a big fan of CCM brakes on a street car, especially the way they are engineered on the V12V(S). I prefer the pedal feel, there is no question of their ability to stand up to any punishment you might inflict on them, and as Prefurbia says, no dust!
Trending Topics
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,930
From: Minneapolis
Rep Power: 111
I posted this before many years ago - but I was shocked to discover washing your car with just tire polish could destroy $20K of brakes and that the Aston dealer did not warn me was even more shocking. Since I never drive the car hard and now are careful washing it, there's no issue for me.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 127
From: Denver, Co
Rep Power: 17
Thanks for the info folks! Yes, essentially, I drive mine alot and don't wish to pay around 20k for maintenance...not to mention given I do a wipe down with detail spray on the wheels after every drive, it's just not worth the risk and cost for me.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,418
From: So Cal
Rep Power: 261
Even if your an aggressive driver doubt you will ever need to replace the CCM rotors, pads maybe 1-2 times in 100k miles. I've been wanting to piece together a CCM upgrade, if you did change to iron discs and got rid of them. Resell would take a hit. Racing Brake and Porterfield both have CCM pads at a very low price compared to OEM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,930
From: Minneapolis
Rep Power: 111
The first V12S had 22K miles on it when I bought the car - I drive it about 10,000 easy miles (before me it was tracked) - the new owner drive - exceedingly aggressive, but mostly with traction control off - now has about 50,000 miles or so - car still looks great and is just needing new pads. I think the traction control works on the brakes, so having nannies on and driving aggressive wears breaks prematurely which is why I think he's gone so many miles on same brake pads. I could be wrong.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 532
From: Las Vegas, NV
Rep Power: 37
Even if your an aggressive driver doubt you will ever need to replace the CCM rotors, pads maybe 1-2 times in 100k miles. I've been wanting to piece together a CCM upgrade, if you did change to iron discs and got rid of them. Resell would take a hit. Racing Brake and Porterfield both have CCM pads at a very low price compared to OEM.
They are great for preventing fade on the track... so if you are a race team that can dish out tens of thousands of dollars a year on brakes, fantastic--your lap times will improve. Most people aren't able or willing to spend that, though.
Here's the bottom line, and some of you won't like to hear it: it's a bling thing. It's for showing off your race car technology, but really not for actually using it like a race car if you don't want to keep spending five figures on discs every year or two.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/24/...r-race-tracks/
During the 2020 992-series Porsche 911 launch in Australia, Wheels magazine spoke to Paul Watson, Porsche Australia's in-country technical representative. When the conversation turned to carbon ceramic brakes, Watson surprised his questioners with the statement that "if you're doing club days we'd always recommend iron discs." This is an unexpected take considering how carbon ceramic rotors have been promoted as an open-secret weapon for track days.
Watson explained that "ceramic discs can degrade if you're hard on the brakes" and that "heat build-up will degrade the carbon fibers in the disc." Rotor wear comes no matter the rotor material, though.
The context of Watson's statement comes when he says, "When we first launched the discs we told people they'd last virtually for the life of the car and people were doing a number of trackdays and coming back to us saying 'I've worn them out.'" The issue isn't about the pure performance value of carbon brakes, but the cost-vs-performance value compared to iron rotors.
[...]
when Wheels asked Watson who carbon ceramic brakes are for, he replied, "People who don't like cleaning their wheels. They don't leave a build-up of brake dust, so that's an advantage."
Watson explained that "ceramic discs can degrade if you're hard on the brakes" and that "heat build-up will degrade the carbon fibers in the disc." Rotor wear comes no matter the rotor material, though.
The context of Watson's statement comes when he says, "When we first launched the discs we told people they'd last virtually for the life of the car and people were doing a number of trackdays and coming back to us saying 'I've worn them out.'" The issue isn't about the pure performance value of carbon brakes, but the cost-vs-performance value compared to iron rotors.
[...]
when Wheels asked Watson who carbon ceramic brakes are for, he replied, "People who don't like cleaning their wheels. They don't leave a build-up of brake dust, so that's an advantage."
Last edited by Mathman85; Mar 24, 2020 at 07:34 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 532
From: Las Vegas, NV
Rep Power: 37
lol You V12V owners don't actually track your cars. 
I get that you're defending your pride, but the Porsche tech representatives words aren't sufficient for you?
Here's some links from this forum's Porsche owners (who do track their car) about it, though:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...pose-last.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
Here's a Ferrari group talking about the same thing... more economical for a street car, but not for track use:
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...-track.267923/
If you want more, here.
I get that you're defending your pride, but the Porsche tech representatives words aren't sufficient for you?Here's some links from this forum's Porsche owners (who do track their car) about it, though:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...pose-last.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ic-brakes.html
Here's a Ferrari group talking about the same thing... more economical for a street car, but not for track use:
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...-track.267923/
If you want more, here.