I love how whenever someone buys a new Vantage and claims how much they like it, some "I hate change" person has to come and say how the car is inferior to the old car and is just ugly, and not impressive. I wonder if that is what people who bought the original 70's Vantage or the 90's Vantage said to the VH owners, because it was a hard departure of the Vantage that came before it. Each make over has ALWAYS been a wild departure from the car that proceeded it, (if you want a car that resembles the original, buy a Porsche 911)! In the VH, out went the truly Aston designed V8 built in the UK and in went a modified Jaguar AJ-V8, built in the Ford/Aston factory located in GERMANY. How dare they put a German built engine in a British car, yes I am referring to the VH cars. Cranky VH Vantage owners need to give it a rest, and realize times move on, cars change, change is good. I'm not bashing VH Vantages, they are a great car and certainly have a great piece in Astons history, but I for one am happy to be the owner of a new Vantage.

 

"Change is good" you say. That means change, by itself, is good. Really??? I think change by itself is neither good nor bad. Change, or (perhaps more accurately) the result of change, can be good, bad, or neither. I'm delighted, genuinely, that you love your new Vantage.

You assume that those who prefer the VH cars to the current cars do so because they "don't like change." For me, and many others, that's completely false. I loved, for example, the DB4. And the DB5. And the DB6, even if it's not as beautiful as the 4 or 5. Loved the -- wait for it -- radically different DBS and the V8 that followed. Like the Virage, love the later Vantage and especially the V550/600. Love the completely changed Vanquish. Etc. The issues I have with the new Vantage aren't because it's changed from the VH. It's simply that there are certain things I don't like about it, such as its using someone else's engine. That's my opinion.

You and I draw lines in different places. Nothing wrong with that. I'd love if the VH V8 engines, and the V12s, were built in England. But I can tolerate their being built in Germany, in a dedicated Aston-only facility within Ford's Cologne plant, by Aston-only staff building Aston-only engines. To call the engine merely a modified Jaguar AJ-V8 is rather misleading IMO, given that, as I stated in a previous post, essentially every part is different, and unique to the Aston engine. That's not in any way comparable to the bought-in AMG engine. Your opinion may differ.

By the way, I don't think there's much similarity between a new 911 and an old one. Sure, very generally, the basic shape is similar, and its engine location hasn't changed. Much the same could be said about your new (or the VH) Vantage and a DB4 Vantage.

 

If someone takes for example a 350 Chevy engine, uses an aftermarket block, strokes it, increases the piston size, moves the piston pin location, uses different heads with different geometries, dry sumps it, not one part is a GM part, is it not still a modified Chevrolet 350? It sure is!

Look at the 911 over the years and it's like pictures of a baby growing up. Even the most basic person would know that it is an evolution of of the original car. Aston Martins are almost always a reinvention of the wheel, as is just about every car company on earth. When an Aston gets a refresh, not a face lift, they do not resemble the car it replaces, unlike Porsche. To take a DB4 and place it next to a new Vantage outside of the general grill shape, there are zero similarities between the two. Outside of an Aston fanatic, the general public would never consider one an evolution of the other. Each car is it's own car.

 

In the scenario you describe, not a single GM part, etc.? I take your point. But no, I wouldn't call it a modified Chevrolet 350 -- at that point, to me, it's become its own thing. A cousin perhaps. But that's not what Aston did. Everything in the 4.3/4.7 V8 is bespoke to Aston. It's not aftermarket, it's not available to anyone else -- it's Aston-only. In an ideal world, would I like it better if it were a clean-sheet Aston engine, like the old Tadek Marek 5.3 V8? Of course.

I do, of course, agree that a new 911 looks more like an old 911 than a new Vantage looks like a DB4. But other than the general silhouette, a 992 has nothing in common with an old 911. Not even the substance that cools the engine. The 964 was the first completely new 911 -- under the skin it was structurally a totally new car. The 996 changed everything -- it has no more in common with any air-cooled 911, other than that basic shape, than your or my Astons have with a DB4. No, the general public doesn't know any of this...

 

New Vantage or Old Vantage, both are stunning cars. The new Vantage is a "better car" in almost every metric. HOWEVER, the old VH Vantage was stunningly beautiful from every angle. That is where the new Vantage lost many people. Speedraser has an issue with the drive train, I do not. While I wish they could have found a way to make their own engine, I understand the money was simply not in the coffers. It is simply the looks that I haven't fully warmed to. In some colors it looks stunning, in others just awkward. All of this long windedness aside, I am glad that many owners love the new generation Vantage. I hope they sell as many as it takes to keep Aston afloat.

 

I, for one, do not ascribe to the idea that an Aston Martin has to be 100% British, Let's face it, the British underpinings for many cars are their sore points ( Lucas electrics for one...) and there is still the lingering haze of unreliability that hangs over Land Rovers, Jags, etc..

What I like deeply about the Aston Martin is the heritage, and design elements and how the whole car is presented. I think the ownership of Ford brought some much needed reliability issues, parts bin availability, cash infusion for design, etc. that made the VH cars a wonderful design to behold and provide a great level of cachet of Ownership. More 911's are made in two years than the whole run of VH vantages from 2007 to 2017.

What I think diminished the newer Vantage was not the engine but the design and the fact that Aston settled for older technology from Mercedes.. It put the Aston in a disadvantage against competotors like the SL and others with the newer MB Tech.

I am an analog guy and while the lack of digital doesn't bother me in vehicles, those that think it is important look at Aston and their unwillingness to pay more for the latest tech ( if that was even on the table) is what diminishes the value prospect of the newer Vantage.

I will say I am warming up to the newer design style ( although the front end still needs an aftermarket solution) and do not really care about the engine being AMG and MB tech. I have a 2017 Mercedes with the older tech and it is fine, In fact , it's better than the newer MBUX which MB is already abandoning... So perhaps there is some saving grace with the older MB tech after all!

Change happens, I'm glad I still have my VH 2009 Vantage. After all these years I still go out to the garage to look and it and love to start it up (with glorious straight pipes) on Saturday mornings for my weekly drive.

 

I’ve never said, nor do I think, that an Aston has to be 100% British. Many components of cars (and not just modern cars) are made by various suppliers from many locations. I draw the line at the most major items – the engine (the car’s beating heart) and the structure/platform (the car’s bones). For me, for a car in Aston Martin’s league, those must be bespoke. Some people don’t care where the engine comes from, but many do -- I know many other Aston owners for whom the someone-else’s engine is an absolute deal-breaker. I ask again, would a Ferrari be a Ferrari with an AMG engine under the hood? Of course not. And it would never happen.

By the way, it takes Porsche only about 7 months to build as many 911s as the total number of VH-gen (V8 and V12) Vantages that Aston made. Porsche made over 40,000 911s in 2022 alone. Aston built 21,648 V8 Vantages and 3052 V12 Vantages – a combined total of 24,700 VH-gen Vantages from 2006-2018MY (there were a few ‘18s for non-US markets). For further reference, Porsche built more than 213,000 997s (2005-2012MY) and another 233,000+ 991s (2012-2019MY).

 

Actually Ferrari just put a non-Ferrari electric engine in the new SF90. It is a Yasa engine, built in the UK. As all of these cars go electric, none will make their own engine or batteries, hopefully that electric fad dies first! I have zero interest in an electric exotic car! Either way, many cars have used engines other than their own. Here is an abbreviated list: Pagani uses an AMG built engine, Lotus use AMG and Toyota engines, Mclaren F1 used a BMW engine, INFINITY QX30 uses a Mercedes engine. The more exotic the car, the more likely they are using someone else's engine!

As to my example of Porsche- you completely missed my point. Many people like to complain about how the current AM line up completely departed from the cars before it. My point is and was, when didn't Aston Martin depart from the cars before it? It would have been a change if they would have kept styling ques from the old cars. The only two companies that don't are Lamborghini and Porsche. STYLING- again is what I am saying- of course what is under the skin changed. 911's in Chicago are as common as a Toyota Corolla, no need to point out numbers, that wasn't my point.

 

A F1 car is as bespoke as you could get on a high performance car and the new Aston Martin AMR23 engine is...Mercedes... Others use Ferrari, or Renault or...(gasp!) Honda.

Everyone has their own opinion of what a car should be and what makes them happy! That's why there are lots of different brands to choose from. Absolutely nothing wrong with opinions...

 

I agree completely and think your prior post was spot on! I just don't care for people that attack someone else's car, due to their preconceived notions of what makes a car worth the badge on it. I like both Vantages and at some point will probably add a previous gen V-12 to the collection.

 

F! is entirely its own category. Nonetheless, I've always been more impressed by the teams that build their own cars and engines, such as Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda, than those that don't. I'd be MUCH more interested in Aston's F1 team if they used Aston engines. It's one of the reasons I'd rather see Aston stick to sports car racing -- at least when they were Aston-engined. For me, it was much cooler when the DB9 and the VH Vantage won their respective classes at LeMans than when a Benz-engined Vantage did. As you noted, these my opinions -- nothing more, nothing less.

 

I love the old styling…but time moves on…I wasn’t sure of the new shape..but has grown on me…still don’t like the headlights…but the rest is quite purposeful looking…as mentioned…power units wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me..mercedesbuilds fine engines..and also agree that although I too love my analogue Aston…the newer versions should be up to date..there seem to be absolute minimum requirements in this dept..I am sure history will show they all had their merits..personally…I’m loving the brand..it’s super rare around here..so mines a star..lol
enjoy..

 

Electric motors -- another category entirely. The combustion engine in the SF90 is, of course, a Ferrari engine. I’ve driven several electric cars. They’re impressive in many ways. I have no desire to own one.

About Porsche, I got your point about styling. My point was that I’m not opposed to change itself, as had been suggested. That’s why I mentioned several generations of significantly changed Astons – and pointed out that I like them. Also, there is no shortage of Porsche people who don’t like change to the 911, whatever change that may be – they are very vocal with every generation change too. Lamborghini, IMO, does change their styling, much more than Porsche does. Morgan changes its styling less than any other company except, perhaps, Caterham.

Aston Martin has a 110+ year history of building engines – that heritage is, to me, part of what makes Aston Martins special. Building your own engines puts you in a different category from companies that buy engines from others. It’s the same reasoning behind why I have more reverence for Aston, Ferrari and Lamborghini than I do for ISO, Jensen, or Lotus for example. Pagani is still an infant compared to Aston, and has never built engines. But did they use an off-the-shelf someone-else’s engine? No, those Benz engines are made specifically for Pagani. Lotus has a long history of buying engines from others, though sometimes they built their own. Lotus is great, but has never been in the same category as Aston or Ferrari, IMO. McLaren, which had never built its own engine, used an engine for the F1 that BMW purpose-built, specifically and only, for that car. From the MP4-12C, has a McLaren engine been used in anything other than a McLaren? No.

About numbers, I was not pointing out numbers to you. Rather, I was replying to MRCW’s post, in which he wrote “More 911's are made in two years than the whole run of VH vantages from 2007 to 2017.” I pointed out that it takes only 7 months, not 2 years.

 

This is a discussion about the cars. I didn’t “attack” your car. My notions about what makes a car worth its badge are precisely that – my notions. That's all.

 

Interesting discussion here about the differences in new vs old design.

I'm one of those who never hated the new one. In fact, I think it's amazing looking, but it's also a break from the path taken during the Gaydon era and I can understand why people prefer one or the other.

I've thought a lot about what those differences are, and how to articulate them to people who ask. The way I tend to describe it is that the Gaydon era cars are about the best balance of masculine and feminine that I've seen in a modern supercar. It's purposeful with masculine haunches, a low stance, and a front end that means business. However, this hardness is softened by an amazing set of sensual curves that turn the car from what could have been a one note beast into a vessel of pure sex appeal that hearkens back to a time when cars weren't just purposeful, but were also beautiful works of art. The looks of the Gaydon era cars are the very definition of "timeless, classic beauty" and I think that comes from their balanced nature. (I mostly dismiss their marketing fluff from the era about the golden ratio, but there admittedly might be something in that...)

Now, if you look at the supercars of today, the Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens, etc. you don't see a focus on "timeless beauty" in their design language, but rather a focus on illustrating the purpose through the design. They are beautiful in many respects, but they invoke a completely different set of feelings. The cars of today epitomize "exotic aggression" with 250 little aero wings, sharp angles, holes through the body, massive diffusers, etc. The new Vantage is a car of its era. The sensual curves are still there, but have been minimized, and a more brutish overt masculinity takes over. From the expansive, in-your-face maw pushing the headlights into more of an aggressive squint, to the massive, almost bellicose diffuser protruding from the bottom in the back, overt masculinity has taken over and the sensual lines have taken a back seat. It's still very beautiful, and I would claim quite a bit more attractive than many cars of this generation, but it's a look that definitely invokes a different set of emotions. I'm not sure it will ever be considered a "classic beauty", but then I'm not thinking many cars of this era will. For the most part, I see the models come and go and they all "feel" pretty much the same. For me, A Ferrari 296 is the same as an SF90 which is the same as an F8 from a pure emotion invoking standpoint. The Ferrari Roma maybe comes the closest in this era to being classically beautiful. Funny that many people say that it looks very Aston Martin-ish.

At the end of the day, I love my Gaydon era Vantage for its classic beauty and amazing aesthetic balance. I'd also happily own a new Vantage for it's own emotional invoking reasons, and maybe someday I will. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trade one beast for the other. I'd just have to have both. :-)

Anyway, just my $0.02. Your mileage may vary.