Hi there.
A dealership sold me a GTC 2007 and provided me with a HPI CLEAR certificate in the UK, meaning the car was not a write off.
However when i went to sell the car it was actually CAT N (which is worth less and should have been disclosed).

I need to know how much a "non cat N" ie a regular Bentley GTC 2007 with approx 60k miles would have sold for in early 2019.
They are now lying and saying 45000-50000GBP, so in fact the 30k i paid was reflective of a cat N. This isn't true but i would like proof.

I have a screenshot of their original advert so i should win this case but i would like to show they knowingly keep lying so if i could collate any data here that would be helpful!

It may not be pivotal but your help is truly appreciated, honest answers only cheers!

 

Hello @SJG2023 ,
Welcome to 6speedonline !

As to your issue, if you have the certificate, what is the issue, they as you stated claimed the vehicle to be clear, so no CAT N, now almost 5 years later you find out it is in fact a CAT N vehicle, do you in fact have all documents showing no CAT N prior to purchase, and now showing up as CAT N years later, if so, what date did the incident happen, what was the severity of said damage, and what type of damage, to me, it shouldn't matter that you paid under market value at the time of purchase, why should you be penalized for finding a good deal, they gave you a price, and claimed a "clear hpi" with certificate stating same, so, if they are now saying that the true value in 2019 was 50,000 GBP, I would hold them to that figure, meaning with normal depreciation, and depending on miles added, your supposedly clean title vehicle would hold more value today, my argument would be that I did all my research, found a fabulous deal on a clean title 2007 GTC that I could drive for some many years and still sell later at minimum loss, if any.. BTDT...

Now, on the other hand, as to your comment as to the true value in 2019, I can not speak for vehicle prices on your side of the pond, but here are eight 2007 GTC's with clean titles here in the USA, as they are listed today, they range from 24,000 miles, to 65,000 miles, your 30,000 GBP was equivalent to $38,400 USD in early 2019, these 8 GTC'S are listed at a range from $45,000USD to $65,000 USD today, with the exception of the one GTC listed at $24,900 USD, and it has body damage, along with an engine that doesn't turn over, yet, it has a "Clean Title" as per the listing.

So, not sure on which argument to make, one that the dealership blatantly defrauded you with a false document, if so, then you should have proof that the information of said incident was available to the dealership and others at the time of inspection (report) and purchase, and that it did not show up at a later date after said sale, that has been known to happen, but at the same time the dealership is now claiming that they sold at a lower price because of said CAT N branding, so, why did they give you a "Clear Certificate", so, depending on what a 2007 GTC with a clean title sells for today in your area, that's the argument to make, you purchased a clean title 2007 GTC a great price, not a branded title vehicle at a lower price point.

Please let us know the going rate for a 2007 in your area.

Johnny

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The certificate is 6months before the sale to me.. and they say it was a mistake to include it and it was part of the old bundle though it is in their name/paper heading.
I should win the case thats not the issue but it will go quicker as well if i can refute their one point which was that the cars were listed approx 50000gbp at the time.. this isnt true a car with 60k miles was approx 33k gbp some less some more. i bought this one for 30k basically but it was because they showed it as CAT A not CAT N.

Going rate in UK is less as they're made around here so no import fees. you can buy a cat A for approx 25000gbp today (or as low as 20k for one with more miles). Cat N you'd think would be worth less than that today then.. so 15k? or less


ANYONE BOUGHT A GTC 2007 in the uk by any chance and have any data points I have emailed current sellers of 2007 models on autotrader UK to find out what they paid and when.. hopefully soon i get a hit approx 2019 purchase date.

One says his dealership listed approx 36k around then so thats at a dealer, and already lower than what they said. so getting there

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Hello @SJG2023 ,
If the clear certificate is dated 6 months prior to your purchase, what is the date of the latest HPI, and the date of the incident that caused the "CAT N" branding, did the dealership have the vehicle for 6 months prior to your purchase, if not, why didn't you request an up to date HPI at the time of said purchase, who is the party that performed the HPI ?
I certainly hope that it is not the dealership themselves, I would think it would be a independent third party.

To another point, something is not adding up here, you now state that you purchased the vehicle at 30k GBP because it had a "CAT A", not a "CAT N", a CAT A is the worst level and the most damage to a vehicle, whereas the vehicle can not even be broken down for parts, a CAT A vehicle must be scraped / crushed.

I understand that the HPI report is done by a private company, and is not a government agency, but, I have to ask, what took years to realize that either your V5C/Logbook, or the DVLA had branded the vehicle a "CAT N", if that is in fact is where the branding showed up, for clarification, please explain to us on this side how it works for you, as a search states that the UK does not issue titles to vehicles, just a registration documents, and as a V5C/Logbook is not proof of ownership, proof of ownership would be your invoice/receipt of purchase, so, where does the branding come in if no title, and is not on the registration document, or V5C, in the USA, a minor (your CAT N) accident would NOT show up on any of our actual titles of ownership, therefore, no branding, our titles are either Clean, Salvage, Rebuilt, of Certificate of Destruction, with the designated reason of prior salvage/rebuild, as stated, our minor accidents do not brand any title, and can only be found by a third party history report, such as Carfax/AutoCheck.

As to your thoughts of a "CAT N" devaluing the vehicle by a certain amount as you showed as much as 10,000 GBP, I am not so sure, a CAT N is the least of any of the categories, and can be just a minor fender bender, or bumper damage, you really need to share the exact information as to the date, and damage the vehicle sustained, as to your just asking what anyone paid for their 2007 GTC in 2019, that is not at all a fair evaluation, there are many more facts to factor in, such as the number of previous owners, mileage, condition, options, repairs and maintenance schedule, etc.

Here are ten 2007 Bentley GTC's listed right now in the UK, they range from 23,000 GBP to 34,000 GBP, and all of these 2007's listed, have a minimum of 4 previous owners, the majority have 5 and 6, the unit at 34K has 6 previous owners, whereas the unit at 24K has 8 previous owners, to me, the prior amount of owners plays a big part in the price point, which leads to the question, how many owners did your 2007 GTC have prior to your purchase ?

Seriously though, you paid "30,000 GBP" almost 5 years ago, depending on what you sold it for, what is the issue, as the ten units I listed fall into the same price range today, just about 5 years later...

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/sear...2007&year=2007

Johnny

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Apologies i saw them mention cat A in the long court paperwork and it has nothing to do with our case. I thought Cat A meant a car that had gone through no issues... ie "clean health".
SOrry for that confusion.

I owned the car for just 2yrs... the court case date was laughably postponed by a year twice due to technicalities. Outrageous tbh as it is harder to put both parties back to where they were at the time of the contract.

I have no paperwork regarding the incident or any paperwork saying cat N on it.. A buyer ran a check on the car which brought up the incident which looks like it happened some time after the dealer had the car, which is odd.

Will let you know how it goes.. there are lawyers working on the case.. what i really needed was simply to show he lied. Honestly prices of cars went up when money became looser in the pandemic, for these types anyway.

I have spoken to 2 buyers so far who bought in the low 30s in 2019.. gbp. so theyve lied on the paperwork saying all other non cat N's were 45000-50000 for similar it wasnt the case believe me. or id have thought WOW this is a steal. I didnt think that at the time.