TO deputydog95

Q:So what other Porsche tuner uses a piggy back ECU or extra injectors?
A: None of the other tuners

Q:And while we all know the benefit of having the correct amount amount fuel in FI applications to avoid detonation, why not use larger injectors in lieu of the "bandaid" extra injectors?
A: Because it cost more money.

Q:Is there any advantage at all or is this just a way to cut corners to save the manufacturer money?
A: none at all just to save money

Likewise with the ECU... Rather than using a piggy back to fool the stock ECU, why not re-program the ECU for specific mapping? Is it because they can't and they have to result to yet another bandaid?
A:Agian to save More money and time

I know you guys are desperate for more HP and this is the only game in town for the Cayman, but I would be very cautious.... That being said, they are very nice people at TPC with a lot of racing experience. I think they need to catch up and start using the best technology available instead of patches.

 

Sorry about that I thought you were saying if the kit is cheap in then it's unreliable.

 

It's all good I understand how alot of my posts can be really unclear.

 

Whaaaaaat! You want to turbo a fine car like the Cayman S?
If you are going to do it, do it right like Penske or Ganassi would. Build the car from the ground up. Fine balanced billet crank and rods, forged pistons with an 8/1 compression ratio, ported heads and cooling ducts, bigger radiators, custom tuned intake, ecu, exhaust, intercooler etc.

Automotive performance tuning 101:
High performance lightweight production 11/1 cast pistons + powdered metal rods and crank + stock cooling system + bolt on turbo kit = scattered parts.
(This simple formula is in nearly every hot rodding book ever written in one form or another.)

It's just a matter of time. Too much cylinder pressure, too much heat, deadly detonation. We have seen a lot of FI 986s do the huge cloud of white smoke thing over the years. I am sure someone, somewhere, with enough money could do a reliable turbo 987 that would withstand the test of time. I have just never seen one. Maybe you will be the first??? Squeezing in a GT2 motor might turn out to be cheaper. Good luck!

 

all motors blow, its hard to say if a well done FI system is the cause or not.

better pistons really is all that is needed up to 450-500 hp.
the rods and crank will be more than fine up to that point.

FWIW the reason you see so many FI 986 puff smoke would probably be the less than effective intake cooling methods used....

dont go all the way to 8:1, 9.0-9.2-1 with a nice easy 8 psi should put the CS motor at an easy 400 hp, maybe 450. keep the intake temps low (dont mount your IC on top of the hot motor..) and you should be safe for ever...
Tuning is key, conservitive always wins the race, cause it finishes.

just like dinan would do with a bmw...
or SVT with a ford....

 

We use extra injectors as we make them only operable when the car is at boost... it is not a "bandaid" we like the car to run off of boost like it did from the factory, and our kits do. We may do things differently here at TPC but we do them that way because they work and they make reliable horsepower. We have only had one issue with a Cayman Turbo kit and it was recently... the turbo had one bad seal. The car was towed here, had the turbo reinstalled and the car was re-dynotuned to make sure it performed flawlessly at no cost to the customer. We have over 60 turbo charged caymans in the world now and we have never heard a complaint.

 

Here is a picture of our complete turbo kit on a jig.

 

Time will surely tell the whole story.

 

Is that because you guys don't have a custom mapped ECU to go with the injectors? My Evo SC'd 996 idles exactly like stock with no change in drivabilitly.

 

Every company does things a little different. We have used the stage injector route for a long time now and it works for us.

 

Actually, every company that does major Porsche upgrades uses larger injectors except for TPC. If you're going to use something "outside of the box" you might be better served explaining why it works significantly better than what is considered the norm for Porsche tuning....

 

TPC Racing has the challenge of converting a N/A car to a forced induction turbo application that being said the factory ECU architecture was not set up for this turbo application. It does not have the ability to add a map sensor charge air temp sensor and have closed loop boost control as the factory 997 Turbo. The UniChip was selected for the power software and amount of additional drivers necessary to control all of these functions as well as drive the primary injectors.

When adding larger primary injectors only to a system not designed to be turbo the mass air meter is offset to accept the load variance. This is a problem as it is a band aid to having a map sensor as well as a mass air meter to have the proper resolution and compensations. The addition of 2 more injectors also adds cold fuel(much like and intercoolerl) to the mix cooling charge. This drops the temperature of the air making it even better for induction performance.

Not to mention charge air temp compensation this will have a big influence on not only fuel and timing curves but the boost curves all must be tied in and not separate systems as suggested it is possible to do. To do it all with separate systems is a band aid approach.

The single greatest complaint tuners receive is that of the drivability and day to day usefulness of a converted car too many times you hear the car makes more power but car is hard to start in the cold check engine light or stalls runs bad at a certain RPM

The factory ECU is tuned to near perfection and the emissions are in check with FTP standards by leaving the base ECU mapping you keep that great drivability the Porsche is famous for and why get in to the FTP loop.

Many tuners in the past have used a separate ecu and drivers notably GM warrantied Callaway Corvette.

A well known porsche tuner, Andial, also uses a 7th injector to compensate for extra load.

 

Does TPC have the ability to do in house ECU re-programming such as Protomotive, EVO, etc...?

Please don't misunderstand me. I have a lot of respect for TPC and your racing campaigns. However, let's not compare tuning a small block chevy motor to a Porsche.

With using two additional injectors, where are they inserted into the fuel system and how do you ensure that fuel is evenly distributed amongst all 6 cylinders? I am not sure how you are setting up your SC systems now, but at one point there was only one extra injector. It would seem two would better, but it would also seem still to have potential to have not enough fuel going to the cylinders furthest away from the injectors and too much going to the cylinder closest.

 

Our 997TT tuning is done with REVO, we have our own program that they distribute. The two injectors are placed in our custom intake plenum so they evenly distribute fuel for both banks. Each application is addressed on its own... for the cayman, 2 injectors is the route we chose.

 

I guess I still don't understand why you don't go with in house programming, and in the case of the Cayman, use an EBC to control the boost. Does using a piggy back unit over ride some of the safety measures that are built in to the stock ECU? It was my understanding that one of the advantages of a re-program over a piggy back module is that the re-program maintains all the factory engine safety parameters whereas the piggy back "tricks" the ecu into thinking every is okay at all times, even if it's not. Is that accurate?