Why is the build quality on the 430 so poor?
#61
03-27-2009, 11:58 AM
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Overstimulated, I like that word. It will pass but it sucks because it has to be tuned to pass, and then tuned again the right way. We tried replacing 02 sensors and even a visual inspection. Which failed miserably, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see all of the aftermarket equipment!
If it's a 6 speed it has the Corvette LS3 rated at 426 hp, these engines are insane. With just a cam swap and bolt ons there are alot of cars with 500 to the ground already.
Ok so does anyone think the F450 will have better build quality? And also does the construction of the aluminum body have anything to do with some of the issues? I know the aluminum bodied Jag's had certain issues with paint quality.
If it's a 6 speed it has the Corvette LS3 rated at 426 hp, these engines are insane. With just a cam swap and bolt ons there are alot of cars with 500 to the ground already.
Ok so does anyone think the F450 will have better build quality? And also does the construction of the aluminum body have anything to do with some of the issues? I know the aluminum bodied Jag's had certain issues with paint quality.
I'll definately talk with you on the Camaro engine when it arrives. Can't wait. I know my ex bro in law added a ton of power to his new mustang cobra with just a few bolt ons.
I still contend the build quality is top notch. It's not a 400k Phantom.
#63
03-27-2009, 12:24 PM
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Rep Power: 169 I spec'd my Camaro Oct 13th of last year when they allowed Chevy to put orders in. I'm told it will be an early April Build.
#65
03-27-2009, 12:39 PM
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quality wise? none. 3 years difference so the newer one has some better features. the seats in the 05 are so soft it's like a good old chair at home. my spider's interior couldn't be better imho. I've never had so many people comment on the interior of a car ever. the stitching and finish are great. the 05 just feels like an older car inside. I'm sad the 05' is going away.
#66
03-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Oh, I thought maybe you had two because one is a Spyder and one is a coupe. Are they both F1 transmission cars? And that pic shows what I mentioned about the amazing leather and detailing in those cars!
#67
03-27-2009, 12:47 PM
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i have a spider and a coupe and the coupe is going away for something else in their line. Both F1's. Ferrari doesn't make but a few 6 speeds anymore because the transmissions are so good in the F1's. 6 speeds will disappear in the next few years I would guess.
#69
03-29-2009, 09:22 PM
If you guys ever watch Ultimate Factories: Ferrari, you'll see the innovations that go into making a 430 and 599. The technology is in the engine, body, suspension, even the scuderia plate on the fender. What I mean is, there's a lot of stuff going on that on the surface you cannot see.
Also, I don't consider reliability to be related to build quality. It's one thing that an alternator dies unexpected and strands you, it's another thing that panels don't line up or **** starts falling off.
///Michael
#70
04-02-2009, 09:49 PM
That's what I love about my car, its modified exactly how I like it...extremely fast and raw. And the exterior should tell people its not a 50 year old washer and sitter in lawn chair at shows kind of driver. 
And really strangely alot of Z06, and now ZR1 owners also drive exotics. Most of the ZR1 owners I talk to own more than one exotic car in addition to the ZR1. When I do get an exotic, I will probably still have a nasty Vette to drive as well!
I hope we get to meet and shake hands, and agree to disagree some day!
And really strangely alot of Z06, and now ZR1 owners also drive exotics. Most of the ZR1 owners I talk to own more than one exotic car in addition to the ZR1. When I do get an exotic, I will probably still have a nasty Vette to drive as well!
I hope we get to meet and shake hands, and agree to disagree some day!
#71
04-02-2009, 10:02 PM
Let's not forget that Mercedes makes more E-Classes in 3 days of production than Ferrari does cars (all models) in an entire year. Moreover, Mercedes are subject to much more mileage and general abuse than your average Ferrari. As such, statistically the odds of seeing problems with the Mercedes are exponentially higher than that in the Ferrari.
As for the factory tour showing me this, at Mercedes I didn't see a whole pile of cars in semi states of dis-assembly after they were "completed" having any number of problems corrected before leaving the plant.
As far as race heritage goes, Ferrari has an extensive racing heritage but lets not forget that Mercedes Benz also has an illustrious racing history dating back to the pre-war heros (Rudolf Carraciola & Richard Seaman just to name a couple) all the way to powering the 2008 F1 World Champion. In addition, Porsche has perhaps the most diverse and successful background of any manufacturer in all of racing, having won at just about everything.
Again... my opinion
As for the factory tour showing me this, at Mercedes I didn't see a whole pile of cars in semi states of dis-assembly after they were "completed" having any number of problems corrected before leaving the plant.
As far as race heritage goes, Ferrari has an extensive racing heritage but lets not forget that Mercedes Benz also has an illustrious racing history dating back to the pre-war heros (Rudolf Carraciola & Richard Seaman just to name a couple) all the way to powering the 2008 F1 World Champion. In addition, Porsche has perhaps the most diverse and successful background of any manufacturer in all of racing, having won at just about everything.
Again... my opinion
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9113.html
every knows he didn't win as many races as felipe last year and yea ferraris unreliability cost him the championship but seriously mclaren is this desperate? come on, oh yea mercedes isn't what mclaren is all about, they might as well have a renault engine in their car, atleast renault won two years in a row.
#72
04-03-2009, 08:50 AM
I sure hope not, a 3 pedal manual offers SO much more then flappy paddles to a real driver.
#73
04-04-2009, 02:09 PM
I know people who have been on the same tour, at no point do they tell you that "those cars need to have some issues fixed before they leave the factory". So that seems like pure specuation to me. The Ferrari factory is very open, they don't try to hide things like say Mercedes would.
Last edited by achtung6; 04-04-2009 at 03:09 PM.
#74
04-04-2009, 02:31 PM
Your points are well taken. The irony of speaking about reliability, specifically bashing the silver star I'm sure is not lost on anyone when we see your avatar and handle, no?
GM is hardly any of the things you mention and is certainly far worse off than M-B or any other brand right now....
I think FRPS Girl's points are right on the money.
I'm a fan of any car worthy of admiration. YOUR Z06 is included in that list by the way! And not at the bottom either. It's the best thing GM has done...probably ever.
She's right in pointing out that tifosi only see red. It's a Ferrari thing. It will always be that way and I think it's kinda cool.
I love how Luigi in the movie Cars is just that way.....he only see's red. A tifosi though and through.
GM is hardly any of the things you mention and is certainly far worse off than M-B or any other brand right now....
I think FRPS Girl's points are right on the money.
I'm a fan of any car worthy of admiration. YOUR Z06 is included in that list by the way! And not at the bottom either. It's the best thing GM has done...probably ever.
She's right in pointing out that tifosi only see red. It's a Ferrari thing. It will always be that way and I think it's kinda cool.
I love how Luigi in the movie Cars is just that way.....he only see's red. A tifosi though and through.
And I can agree with alot of Ferrari guys, if you want reliability buy an ES350 or an LS460. It's sometimes the intangibles that matter, which is why I own a Land Rover...LOL
#75
04-04-2009, 03:08 PM
I just meant that he hit M-B pretty hard on reliability but seems to be a hardcore GM fan.
I find that ironic. I had two M-B cars (an '04 and '05) that were both very reliable. And yes, I'm aware that they are not all so reliable.
I did however own a '98 GM S-10 pickup that was the worst vehicle I've ever had. The list of troubles it gave me is quite long and as could be expected, tainted my opinion of GM's reliability.
Basing this opinion on MY experience with ONE vehicle is fair? Maybe, maybe not but many here are bashing cars they don't have experience with so I'm just providing mine.
YMMV
I find that ironic. I had two M-B cars (an '04 and '05) that were both very reliable. And yes, I'm aware that they are not all so reliable.
I did however own a '98 GM S-10 pickup that was the worst vehicle I've ever had. The list of troubles it gave me is quite long and as could be expected, tainted my opinion of GM's reliability.
Basing this opinion on MY experience with ONE vehicle is fair? Maybe, maybe not but many here are bashing cars they don't have experience with so I'm just providing mine.
YMMV