How to drive a GT3 (or other 911) fast?
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[quote=997gt3north;1548042]Unless you are totaly blowing the corner, I don't think slower entry is the anwer, but likely more trail braking (again i'm speaking about all 2nd gear and mid rpm 3rd gear corners) and a very very slow transition off the brake with even a millisecond of no inputs to very slowly on the gas to then matting the pedal.
First Thanks to Rolland for a good topic. I am not posting hear to give advise as i only have 4 track days in my GT3. I did do some dirt track racing as a kid but this is not it. My instructors tell me I am smooth in the brake gas transition but I learned the hard way the first time out about lifting. I don't have to explain further do I. But I have two points, Trail Braking= are we talking about the transition from heavy or aggressive braking to dragging on the rotors a bit keeping a little tension on the front tires, such that it lighten up the rear tires a bit to make the car turn (verses turning the *** end by power turning)
and also, wanted to know, do you at times left foot brake and give it some accelerator while still trail braking to smooth out that transition.
First Thanks to Rolland for a good topic. I am not posting hear to give advise as i only have 4 track days in my GT3. I did do some dirt track racing as a kid but this is not it. My instructors tell me I am smooth in the brake gas transition but I learned the hard way the first time out about lifting. I don't have to explain further do I. But I have two points, Trail Braking= are we talking about the transition from heavy or aggressive braking to dragging on the rotors a bit keeping a little tension on the front tires, such that it lighten up the rear tires a bit to make the car turn (verses turning the *** end by power turning)
and also, wanted to know, do you at times left foot brake and give it some accelerator while still trail braking to smooth out that transition.
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I humbly offer this, without comment, as
the last time I did, got totally blasted for it.
http://www.zh.com/images/vettranio.pdf
I offer these as potential qualification to give advise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAQv_9mUDhE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFFbc09zCZ8
the last time I did, got totally blasted for it.
http://www.zh.com/images/vettranio.pdf
I offer these as potential qualification to give advise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAQv_9mUDhE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFFbc09zCZ8
Last edited by Dietz; Dec 21, 2007 at 06:29 PM.
daytona must be a blast to drive.
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One of the sessions I had with an instructor, we went through trail braking vs, as stated above, getting on the throttle earlier. I was really surprised how fast I could take the corner by settling the car before the turn and hitting the throttle earlier and allowing the back end to come out a little and catch it. As he said, "The 911 is famous for the traction it gives while you are on the throttle."
It was his opinion that the faster the corner, the less rotation is needed and the less trail braking you need. There are so many nuances when driving that I think it is very difficult to generalize. I think my problem was that I was trail braking everything.
It was his opinion that the faster the corner, the less rotation is needed and the less trail braking you need. There are so many nuances when driving that I think it is very difficult to generalize. I think my problem was that I was trail braking everything.
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Bingo - we have a winner!!
While the 911 will trailbrake effectively and you will get the nose
to turn in easier, the question is: do you want to go through the
turn "easier" or "faster"? I would gladly give up a little grip at
turn in for being on the throttle before you because this is the
view you will have at corner exit as I pass you...
Deetz.
While the 911 will trailbrake effectively and you will get the nose
to turn in easier, the question is: do you want to go through the
turn "easier" or "faster"? I would gladly give up a little grip at
turn in for being on the throttle before you because this is the
view you will have at corner exit as I pass you...
Deetz.
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Nice article Dietz. Need more material like this:
The key to driving the 911 GT3 quickly is initiating acceleration as early as possible after brake application.
I haven't been driving for 20 years like the author, but I can absolutley relate to where he's coming from which is why I started this thread. All of my experience, like his, is in sedans and common sense would dictate that a 911 needs to be driven differently or you're going to be slow. And thus the subject line "How to drive a GT3 (or other 911) fast?" This article is the essense of what I was trying to get at, which is not about how to drive fast in general (be smooth, get seat time, etc.). I only which the article was longer!
Thanks,
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The 911 and it's design have been supremely successful
in endurance racing because it has inherent advantages
at braking balance and in corner exit traction.
There are, of course, other reasons too
(low CG of the boxster motor, and reliability),
but I humbly submit that to be really fast in
a 911, you have to use it's strengths, and
not try to overcome all the weaknesses -
they are engineering compromises that we've all
bought into by buying the car in the first place -
the car is built to be fast at apex through corner
exit, and as a result, down the straight.
I believe that trying to optimize corner entry in lieu of
the 911's strengths is not putting "the money on the
winning horse" (or in other words: What part of the
corner do want to optimize, and how can you get the
particular car to do that?)
Deetz
in endurance racing because it has inherent advantages
at braking balance and in corner exit traction.
There are, of course, other reasons too
(low CG of the boxster motor, and reliability),
but I humbly submit that to be really fast in
a 911, you have to use it's strengths, and
not try to overcome all the weaknesses -
they are engineering compromises that we've all
bought into by buying the car in the first place -
the car is built to be fast at apex through corner
exit, and as a result, down the straight.
I believe that trying to optimize corner entry in lieu of
the 911's strengths is not putting "the money on the
winning horse" (or in other words: What part of the
corner do want to optimize, and how can you get the
particular car to do that?)
Deetz
Last edited by Dietz; Dec 21, 2007 at 08:42 PM.
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The 911 and it's design have been supremely successful
in endurance racing because it has inherent advantages
at braking balance and in corner exit traction.
There are, of course, other reasons too
(low CG of the boxster motor, and reliability),
but I humbly submit that to be really fast in
a 911, you have to use it's strengths, and
not try to overcome all the weaknesses -
they are engineering compromises that we've all
bought into by buying the car in the first place -
the car is built to be fast at apex through corner
exit, and as a result, down the straight.
I believe that trying to optimize corner entry in lieu of
the 911's strengths is not putting "the money on the
winning horse" (or in other words: What part of the
corner do want to optimize, and how can you get the
particular car to do that?)
Deetz
in endurance racing because it has inherent advantages
at braking balance and in corner exit traction.
There are, of course, other reasons too
(low CG of the boxster motor, and reliability),
but I humbly submit that to be really fast in
a 911, you have to use it's strengths, and
not try to overcome all the weaknesses -
they are engineering compromises that we've all
bought into by buying the car in the first place -
the car is built to be fast at apex through corner
exit, and as a result, down the straight.
I believe that trying to optimize corner entry in lieu of
the 911's strengths is not putting "the money on the
winning horse" (or in other words: What part of the
corner do want to optimize, and how can you get the
particular car to do that?)
Deetz
good job. As we agree the 911 WAS designed properly.
Quite a genius in Dr. P
tw
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it) use it to the best of it's strengths.
Deetz.
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tw
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Good thread.
I've been driving 911's on track for 3 years or so.
Started with a 996GT3 Mk II. Then moved on to a 996RS. Now in a 997RS.
There is a big community of GT3 drivers tracking their cars here in the UK.
The really quick guys trail brake deep into the slower turns and are always flat on the throttle from apex to exit. Smooth brake and throttle inputs and transitions enable them to brake later and carry more speed through the corner.
The GT3 has a asymmetric limited slip differential. The diff locks more on overrun than traction. This is why you must be flat on corner exit. In plain English, if you lift or modulate the throttle on exit you unlock the diff which upsets the car and alters your line.
In higher speed turns the really fast drivers can push past initial understeer and into gentle oversteer. Whilst flat on the throttle they make small smooth corrections to maintain the line.
I've been driving 911's on track for 3 years or so.
Started with a 996GT3 Mk II. Then moved on to a 996RS. Now in a 997RS.
There is a big community of GT3 drivers tracking their cars here in the UK.
The really quick guys trail brake deep into the slower turns and are always flat on the throttle from apex to exit. Smooth brake and throttle inputs and transitions enable them to brake later and carry more speed through the corner.
The GT3 has a asymmetric limited slip differential. The diff locks more on overrun than traction. This is why you must be flat on corner exit. In plain English, if you lift or modulate the throttle on exit you unlock the diff which upsets the car and alters your line.
In higher speed turns the really fast drivers can push past initial understeer and into gentle oversteer. Whilst flat on the throttle they make small smooth corrections to maintain the line.