How long do PCCB rotors suppose to last?
#31
08-06-2008, 02:24 AM
Besides of price reason, could it be also safety reasons in road use? I mean few years ago ceramic brakes was told to be very fragile in winter temperatures and also, if the wear is maximum, whole disc could "vaporate" while braking?
On track/ racing people pay lot more attention to wear/ tear, but how about regular users in road? Could this two side "sandwich" be a solution to avoide these?
On track/ racing people pay lot more attention to wear/ tear, but how about regular users in road? Could this two side "sandwich" be a solution to avoide these?
#32
08-06-2008, 02:26 AM
Val, it's only a matter of time. At some point the discs will need replacing. Mine are showing the first stages of delamination - although still within manufacturers and Porsche guidlines for safe use - at around 15k miles with around 15 track days.
#33
08-06-2008, 02:30 AM
BTW, if anyone wants the technical information from Porsche regarding what constitutes wear to PCCB's beyond permissable limits, including chips/cracks, email me through my profile and I'll forward it to you.
#34
08-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Pressing,would like that info to see if my deterioration is the same as yours.My mileage/track days are the same.The Move It gear looks awesome.Your profile does not have an email address.Ian
#36
08-07-2008, 07:25 AM
At one point cup cars had to run PCCBs (in porsche cup series), do they still run them? it must be hugely expensive over the season.
#37
08-07-2008, 12:37 PM
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#38
08-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Agree with Fabryce regarding bringing them up to temperature, this needs to be progressive and not shock the disc.
Once at temp they like to stay at temp. They should be used (on track) by 'hitting' the pedal hard then coming off them in a progresseive (manner) which helps load the nose up of the Porsche on turn in then off them.
DO NOT squeeze them softly hoping not too damge them use or ride/drag them. If you are 'soft' with them and apply an increase in pressure over too long a distance you will send temperatures soring -not good! (loads of extra rapid wear!!!)
Then this is compounded by pitting (no gradual cool down) and this is when the cracks happen..
Too many in and out of pits and rapid heat cycles kills them!!!
(Just think what it is like coming out of the Sauna and jumping under a cold shower then running back in the Sauna then under cold shower again - there is only so much one can take!!!).
M
http://www.oakleydesign.eu
Once at temp they like to stay at temp. They should be used (on track) by 'hitting' the pedal hard then coming off them in a progresseive (manner) which helps load the nose up of the Porsche on turn in then off them.
DO NOT squeeze them softly hoping not too damge them use or ride/drag them. If you are 'soft' with them and apply an increase in pressure over too long a distance you will send temperatures soring -not good! (loads of extra rapid wear!!!)
Then this is compounded by pitting (no gradual cool down) and this is when the cracks happen..
Too many in and out of pits and rapid heat cycles kills them!!!
(Just think what it is like coming out of the Sauna and jumping under a cold shower then running back in the Sauna then under cold shower again - there is only so much one can take!!!).
M
http://www.oakleydesign.eu
#39
08-07-2008, 04:19 PM
The problem with PCCB's of all variations is that there is an inherent weakness in the longevity of the rotor because the actual friction layer is only around 1.00mm thick. This is laminated onto the body of the disc, despite the improvements over the various iterations, once you have caused 'carbon burn' beyond the manufacturer SGL Carbon's guidlines, the rotor's are junk. 'Carbon burn' is there the outer friction layer has started to de-laminate.
The reason for the laminated disc is twofold, firstly it's quick to manufacture, and secondly reasonably cheap (at least what Porsche Ag pay SGL carbon!).
I've investigated PCCB's in great depth as I have them on my 18k mile Carrera GT and they are in the early stages of carbon burn. I've replaced them with ST rotors. These are manfuactured in the UK and sold through Movit. The entire construction of the disc is ceramic composite, and the fibres are longer and have a different orientation so the lifespan of the disc is hugely more than the SGL/PCCB solution.
The reason for the laminated disc is twofold, firstly it's quick to manufacture, and secondly reasonably cheap (at least what Porsche Ag pay SGL carbon!).
I've investigated PCCB's in great depth as I have them on my 18k mile Carrera GT and they are in the early stages of carbon burn. I've replaced them with ST rotors. These are manfuactured in the UK and sold through Movit. The entire construction of the disc is ceramic composite, and the fibres are longer and have a different orientation so the lifespan of the disc is hugely more than the SGL/PCCB solution.
Also, are Ferrari owners having similar problems with their ceramic composite brakes, which are also Brembo CCM?
#40
08-08-2008, 03:18 AM
Interesting stuff, however, I believe Porsche moved away from SGL to Brembo in making the Gen. 2 PCCB rotors. Did Brembo improve the design to prevent this 'carbon burn' issue?
Also, are Ferrari owners having similar problems with their ceramic composite brakes, which are also Brembo CCM?
Also, are Ferrari owners having similar problems with their ceramic composite brakes, which are also Brembo CCM?
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