GT3 vs. C2S
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 807
From: East coast
Rep Power: 53
I have not yet heard of any great deals on 2010 C2Ss. The speculative $10k off a build to order one is just that, which my dealer and I had a discussion about. I don't know if I would even consider one at that price, hence the previous thread.
The GT3 I have on order has been agreed upon since July. I am getting a few bucks off, but nothing that amounts to a deal in any stretch of the imagination. My car will have PADM, Full Leather and a few other goodies but it's not a loaded car; about a $121k build. Their margin is about $10-$11k from what I know. The dealer does take care of me in other ways too.
My dealer has had three GT3 allocations since the first 996. Mine will be the third. They do have others in line. I know for certain because I am friends with one and know of the other. I could shop around, but have not found nor heard of any dealer reasonably close to me or otherwise, that would discount an ordered GT3 enough to make me go elsewhere and then deal with other costs and issues.
Larry, I realize how good your deal was but I would have to also deduct for the model year difference. Yours is a 2009. A 2010 model would have at least a $6-7k difference. Anyone buying a left over is not getting exactly what they want, so I would have to consider that as well. You mentioned that stock to stock the delta was $60k with your discount applied. That may be true but I would never consider any Carrera with zero options, however, would take a GT3 with none, if I had to. Regardless, the only way to compare these cars is with comparable options and model year. I am not saying that you didn't get a fantastic deal beacuse you absolutely did!
I posted the thread to get a feel for the delta between the two 2010 cars given the aforementioned parameters.
After considering it further I eliminated the C2S as it does not give me what I want; a more raw sports car which can be enjoyed on or off the track.
For me a C2S would only be considered if it was my color w/SPASM and LSD, PSE, Sport Adaptives, Short Shifter (or possibly PDK?) , Black Gauges, Sport Chrono and a few more goodies, so the price of my comparitive build is about $103k-$104k w/o PDK. Even with a speculated $10k discount it is not enough to overcome the GT3 @ $121k.
With all of those options the C2S would still lack the gorgeous body work (subjective, of course), bigger, better, "prettier" iron brakes, Center Lock Wheels, Dynamic Engine Mounts and of course wicked, WICKED, engine and suspension. And, I don't care about the non-track naysayers, the GT3 can be enjoyed anywhere.
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
The GT3 I have on order has been agreed upon since July. I am getting a few bucks off, but nothing that amounts to a deal in any stretch of the imagination. My car will have PADM, Full Leather and a few other goodies but it's not a loaded car; about a $121k build. Their margin is about $10-$11k from what I know. The dealer does take care of me in other ways too.
My dealer has had three GT3 allocations since the first 996. Mine will be the third. They do have others in line. I know for certain because I am friends with one and know of the other. I could shop around, but have not found nor heard of any dealer reasonably close to me or otherwise, that would discount an ordered GT3 enough to make me go elsewhere and then deal with other costs and issues.
Larry, I realize how good your deal was but I would have to also deduct for the model year difference. Yours is a 2009. A 2010 model would have at least a $6-7k difference. Anyone buying a left over is not getting exactly what they want, so I would have to consider that as well. You mentioned that stock to stock the delta was $60k with your discount applied. That may be true but I would never consider any Carrera with zero options, however, would take a GT3 with none, if I had to. Regardless, the only way to compare these cars is with comparable options and model year. I am not saying that you didn't get a fantastic deal beacuse you absolutely did!
I posted the thread to get a feel for the delta between the two 2010 cars given the aforementioned parameters.
After considering it further I eliminated the C2S as it does not give me what I want; a more raw sports car which can be enjoyed on or off the track.
For me a C2S would only be considered if it was my color w/SPASM and LSD, PSE, Sport Adaptives, Short Shifter (or possibly PDK?) , Black Gauges, Sport Chrono and a few more goodies, so the price of my comparitive build is about $103k-$104k w/o PDK. Even with a speculated $10k discount it is not enough to overcome the GT3 @ $121k.
With all of those options the C2S would still lack the gorgeous body work (subjective, of course), bigger, better, "prettier" iron brakes, Center Lock Wheels, Dynamic Engine Mounts and of course wicked, WICKED, engine and suspension. And, I don't care about the non-track naysayers, the GT3 can be enjoyed anywhere.
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
Last edited by 911dev; Oct 11, 2009 at 07:05 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,550
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Rep Power: 116
With all of those options the C2S would still lack the gorgeous body work (subjective, of course), bigger, better, "prettier" iron brakes, Center Lock Wheels, Dynamic Engine Mounts and of course wicked, WICKED, engine and suspension. And, I don't care about the non-track naysayers, the GT3 can be enjoyed anywhere.
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
If you will keep the car for more than 3 years, the depreciation delta between a C2S and GT3 will more than make up for the upfront investment.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,431
From: Southern Cali
Rep Power: 86
GT3 is an amzing car.
If you can afford it, GET IT!
As a track junkie.. I just tear up when I talk with GT3 owners that have never tracked their car... but thats my thoughts....to each their own.
I think the best daily driver super car is a 997TT... especially when the new TT comes out!
If you can afford it, GET IT!
As a track junkie.. I just tear up when I talk with GT3 owners that have never tracked their car... but thats my thoughts....to each their own.
I think the best daily driver super car is a 997TT... especially when the new TT comes out!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,108
From: South Florida
Rep Power: 529
I have not yet heard of any great deals on 2010 C2Ss. The speculative $10k off a build to order one is just that, which my dealer and I had a discussion about. I don't know if I would even consider one at that price, hence the previous thread.
The GT3 I have on order has been agreed upon since July. I am getting a few bucks off, but nothing that amounts to a deal in any stretch of the imagination. My car will have PADM, Full Leather and a few other goodies but it's not a loaded car; about a $121k build. Their margin is about $10-$11k from what I know. The dealer does take care of me in other ways too.
My dealer has had three GT3 allocations since the first 996. Mine will be the third. They do have others in line. I know for certain because I am friends with one and know of the other. I could shop around, but have not found nor heard of any dealer reasonably close to me or otherwise, that would discount an ordered GT3 enough to make me go elsewhere and then deal with other costs and issues.
Larry, I realize how good your deal was but I would have to also deduct for the model year difference. Yours is a 2009. A 2010 model would have at least a $6-7k difference. Anyone buying a left over is not getting exactly what they want, so I would have to consider that as well. You mentioned that stock to stock the delta was $60k with your discount applied. That may be true but I would never consider any Carrera with zero options, however, would take a GT3 with none, if I had to. Regardless, the only way to compare these cars is with comparable options and model year. I am not saying that you didn't get a fantastic deal beacuse you absolutely did!
I posted the thread to get a feel for the delta between the two 2010 cars given the aforementioned parameters.
After considering it further I eliminated the C2S as it does not give me what I want; a more raw sports car which can be enjoyed on or off the track.
For me a C2S would only be considered if it was my color w/SPASM and LSD, PSE, Sport Adaptives, Short Shifter (or possibly PDK?) , Black Gauges, Sport Chrono and a few more goodies, so the price of my comparitive build is about $103k-$104k w/o PDK. Even with a speculated $10k discount it is not enough to overcome the GT3 @ $121k.
With all of those options the C2S would still lack the gorgeous body work (subjective, of course), bigger, better, "prettier" iron brakes, Center Lock Wheels, Dynamic Engine Mounts and of course wicked, WICKED, engine and suspension. And, I don't care about the non-track naysayers, the GT3 can be enjoyed anywhere.
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
The GT3 I have on order has been agreed upon since July. I am getting a few bucks off, but nothing that amounts to a deal in any stretch of the imagination. My car will have PADM, Full Leather and a few other goodies but it's not a loaded car; about a $121k build. Their margin is about $10-$11k from what I know. The dealer does take care of me in other ways too.
My dealer has had three GT3 allocations since the first 996. Mine will be the third. They do have others in line. I know for certain because I am friends with one and know of the other. I could shop around, but have not found nor heard of any dealer reasonably close to me or otherwise, that would discount an ordered GT3 enough to make me go elsewhere and then deal with other costs and issues.
Larry, I realize how good your deal was but I would have to also deduct for the model year difference. Yours is a 2009. A 2010 model would have at least a $6-7k difference. Anyone buying a left over is not getting exactly what they want, so I would have to consider that as well. You mentioned that stock to stock the delta was $60k with your discount applied. That may be true but I would never consider any Carrera with zero options, however, would take a GT3 with none, if I had to. Regardless, the only way to compare these cars is with comparable options and model year. I am not saying that you didn't get a fantastic deal beacuse you absolutely did!
I posted the thread to get a feel for the delta between the two 2010 cars given the aforementioned parameters.
After considering it further I eliminated the C2S as it does not give me what I want; a more raw sports car which can be enjoyed on or off the track.
For me a C2S would only be considered if it was my color w/SPASM and LSD, PSE, Sport Adaptives, Short Shifter (or possibly PDK?) , Black Gauges, Sport Chrono and a few more goodies, so the price of my comparitive build is about $103k-$104k w/o PDK. Even with a speculated $10k discount it is not enough to overcome the GT3 @ $121k.
With all of those options the C2S would still lack the gorgeous body work (subjective, of course), bigger, better, "prettier" iron brakes, Center Lock Wheels, Dynamic Engine Mounts and of course wicked, WICKED, engine and suspension. And, I don't care about the non-track naysayers, the GT3 can be enjoyed anywhere.
Sorry, for the long post, apparently too much coffee!
. But I do think you can get better than 10 K on a 997.2S . I even think you'll get better than MSRP on a Gt3 if they start piling up .. which they have . I am noticing a few dealerships removing them from their sites which is similar to the 2010 models appearing and then vanishing a few months ago .
The hide and seek inventory does come to a screeching halt on the day you either write the check or walk . I believe that you can shop around but with the Gt3 I have observed what i call a sense of entitelment in dealership sales regading profit on these specific cars. In the past they DID make money on them so now despite the economic changes they have their claw stuck on the idea of Gt3=money maker .
Time is on your side no matter what you decide . Just like the 2009 cars have dropped in value so will the 2010 in time.
I suppose its a matter of looking at the cost, the car, and the timeline .
With all that I have said in mind let me be the first to wish you the best with your new Gt3. I also agree that you can drive it anywhere but I would get the lift . Even though my Turbo lip is low on damptronics the Gt3 lit has a more difficult angle of attack on an incline with the center of the lip design . You will need that lift if its going to be a DD.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 807
From: East coast
Rep Power: 53
I happen to agree with you .
But I do think you can get better than 10 K on a 997.2S . I even think you'll get better than MSRP on a Gt3 if they start piling up .. which they have . I am noticing a few dealerships removing them from their sites which is similar to the 2010 models appearing and then vanishing a few months ago .
The hide and seek inventory does come to a screeching halt on the day you either write the check or walk . I believe that you can shop around but with the Gt3 I have observed what i call a sense of entitelment in dealership sales regading profit on these specific cars. In the past they DID make money on them so now despite the economic changes they have their claw stuck on the idea of Gt3=money maker .
Time is on your side no matter what you decide . Just like the 2009 cars have dropped in value so will the 2010 in time.
I suppose its a matter of looking at the cost, the car, and the timeline .
With all that I have said in mind let me be the first to wish you the best with your new Gt3. I also agree that you can drive it anywhere but I would get the lift . Even though my Turbo lip is low on damptronics the Gt3 lit has a more difficult angle of attack on an incline with the center of the lip design . You will need that lift if its going to be a DD.
. But I do think you can get better than 10 K on a 997.2S . I even think you'll get better than MSRP on a Gt3 if they start piling up .. which they have . I am noticing a few dealerships removing them from their sites which is similar to the 2010 models appearing and then vanishing a few months ago .
The hide and seek inventory does come to a screeching halt on the day you either write the check or walk . I believe that you can shop around but with the Gt3 I have observed what i call a sense of entitelment in dealership sales regading profit on these specific cars. In the past they DID make money on them so now despite the economic changes they have their claw stuck on the idea of Gt3=money maker .
Time is on your side no matter what you decide . Just like the 2009 cars have dropped in value so will the 2010 in time.
I suppose its a matter of looking at the cost, the car, and the timeline .
With all that I have said in mind let me be the first to wish you the best with your new Gt3. I also agree that you can drive it anywhere but I would get the lift . Even though my Turbo lip is low on damptronics the Gt3 lit has a more difficult angle of attack on an incline with the center of the lip design . You will need that lift if its going to be a DD.
I'm not worried about the lift. It will be my second car so trips will be known or planned. The area where I live doesn't predicate the lift, imo. I don't see the value.
You may be right about finding better deals, but it is not as easy as you might think to get a buildable slot with a discount worth traveling for. I also made this deal a few months ago and they have my deposit. I have the risk of losing that, of course. I did manage to get a little off.
I don't see many 2010 C2(S)'s going for more than $10k off right now. I think buyers will have a difficult time finding even that unless Porsche offers more trunk money. (My dealer won't commit to even $10k off after further discussion.)
Again finding a buildable 2010 GT3 for more than $5k off right now will be difficult, imo. I would need AT LEAST that, likely more, to make a deal elsewhere worth it (and, that's not even considering any deposit money with my current dealer.) I have called a few places without success. Money on the table no BS conversations, but no go.
I do feel that $5-10k is still a lot of money, but it's not worth risking not getting the car and not getting one built the way I want it for a few grand; which is a speculative consideration. Also, my dealer lets me inspect my cars, calls me when they arrive, refuses to let anyone but the sales guy, whom I know and trust, drive it. No dirty wash mitts or license plate holes or people sitting in the car revving the engine. I bring my own wash mitts, soap and wax and methodically wash and wax, then inspect my cars before paying for them. Some dealers may not do this. I may be nuts, but it keeps me happy.
So if new build to order GT3s sell for over $10k off MSRP (and a reasonably priced MSRP) no later than the first half of 2010 then I was wrong, but at least I'll be happy driving.
Last edited by 911dev; Oct 12, 2009 at 07:28 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 431
From: Reno NV
Rep Power: 59
And quite true as well.
Wow! I have never heard of that before. A whole new level of OCD or anality. Anybody else do this? Not harassing you, just curious?
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 807
From: East coast
Rep Power: 53
Cars have been painted at port and not disclosed to the buyer. It may be a rare occurrence and less likely with the GT cars, but it happens. Regardless, I hate swirl marks in the paint. I've seen what tools wash people use.
Last edited by 911dev; Oct 12, 2009 at 09:08 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 343
From: Down by the river in a van...
Rep Power: 44
Originally Posted by 911dev
I bring my own wash mitts, soap and wax and methodically wash and wax, then inspect my cars before paying for them. Some dealers may not do this. I may be nuts, but it keeps me happy
WOW! X 2
Pretty sure that's an original PPI procedure you have there dev911
I bring my own wash mitts, soap and wax and methodically wash and wax, then inspect my cars before paying for them. Some dealers may not do this. I may be nuts, but it keeps me happy
Pretty sure that's an original PPI procedure you have there dev911
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 807
From: East coast
Rep Power: 53
I think you missed responding to one or quite possibly two of the other threads; maybe not, you might have hit all of them. Nice job with that post count!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
From: new york
Rep Power: 20
funny- i just bought a 2009 C2S 2 months ago- the thought process was one car for everything, daily driver and occasional track day. People said the GT3 was too harsh for a DD--now i want to trade for a GT3- Get the GT3.
and if anyone is looking to trade a 997 Gt3 for an almost new C2S let me know
and if anyone is looking to trade a 997 Gt3 for an almost new C2S let me know
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 319
From: Monmouth County, NJ
Rep Power: 31
couldn't agree more
I couldn't agree more with this statement! i've only started working on my C2s, but I know the dollars are gonna add up, I can see them in my head already! haha 
C2S is a better daily driver....
GT3 is a great track car that you can still drive daily.
IMO if you never plan to track the car... just buy the C2S...
If you plan to track... buy the GT3
I bought the C2S and started tracking... now with all the money I spent on my C2S I could have bought a GT3.....
My car now handles better than a GT3.... but no matter what i do to mod it.... its will never be a GT3....you buy the GT3 for the GT1 dry sump motor......
other than that... a C2S is more car than most of us will need or can handle..
In reality you are paying more $$ for the motor... everything else can be added or replaced.
GT3 is a great track car that you can still drive daily.
IMO if you never plan to track the car... just buy the C2S...
If you plan to track... buy the GT3
I bought the C2S and started tracking... now with all the money I spent on my C2S I could have bought a GT3.....
My car now handles better than a GT3.... but no matter what i do to mod it.... its will never be a GT3....you buy the GT3 for the GT1 dry sump motor......
other than that... a C2S is more car than most of us will need or can handle..
In reality you are paying more $$ for the motor... everything else can be added or replaced.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 475
From: New York
Rep Power: 42
No way can you use a GT3 for a daily driver in NY. The Gowanus, belt, FDR, L.I.E., turnpike etc. Before I picked the C2S PDK for a daily driver I looked at the GT3. Every dealer I went to had one 2010 black one on their showroom floor. Don't get me wrong,the car was gorgeous but you will rip that front spoiler right off at the Dunkin Donuts drive thru. Now a weekend drive is different but a DD. C2S PDK much better choice.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 470
From: ny
Rep Power: 59
No way can you use a GT3 for a daily driver in NY. The Gowanus, belt, FDR, L.I.E., turnpike etc. Before I picked the C2S PDK for a daily driver I looked at the GT3. Every dealer I went to had one 2010 black one on their showroom floor. Don't get me wrong,the car was gorgeous but you will rip that front spoiler right off at the Dunkin Donuts drive thru. Now a weekend drive is different but a DD. C2S PDK much better choice.