ALMS Laguna - corvette FTL!
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Agreed, but they also cost the #92 BMW a shot at the podium with that bonehead supposed "mistake" earlier in the race.
They've been driving overly aggressive since Mid-Ohio, it's their patented dive-bomb followed by the push off the track. Ask Ferrari, they know about it along with everyone else. They don't give room and actually race to the next corner, they just put a fender or bumper on you, or literally cut the corner off everytime. It's GM's NASCAR mentality. I hope ALMS and IMSA has the ballz to let GM and Corvette know this isn't Grand Am Rolex racing or NASCAR. Just because GM is willing to destroy their race cars every race in order to win doesn't give them the right to lay fenders on everybody else's 500K+ race cars. They probably have the most potent cars in the field, so relying on constantly overly aggressive or downright dirty moves makes them pretty pathetic IMO.
Trust me, there was a whole paddock full of racers and teams secretely saying "thanks Jorg".
They've been driving overly aggressive since Mid-Ohio, it's their patented dive-bomb followed by the push off the track. Ask Ferrari, they know about it along with everyone else. They don't give room and actually race to the next corner, they just put a fender or bumper on you, or literally cut the corner off everytime. It's GM's NASCAR mentality. I hope ALMS and IMSA has the ballz to let GM and Corvette know this isn't Grand Am Rolex racing or NASCAR. Just because GM is willing to destroy their race cars every race in order to win doesn't give them the right to lay fenders on everybody else's 500K+ race cars. They probably have the most potent cars in the field, so relying on constantly overly aggressive or downright dirty moves makes them pretty pathetic IMO.
Trust me, there was a whole paddock full of racers and teams secretely saying "thanks Jorg".
pierre-kaffer.de/Newsitem-371.html
Last edited by GT3 Chuck; Oct 14, 2009 at 10:29 PM. Reason: embedded link
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GT2 class corvette No 3 and 4 are bunch of idiot and bully the whole day at Laguna this past weekend. First vette No 4 took out 3 cars at turn 2 by going too fast and forcing the issue (1:24 in the video below) - which took out race leader GT3 from GMG. Then the same No 4 clipped a prototype and ended it's day 
We all know about what happen at the end with vette No 3 and GT3 RSR #45. I am glad Bergmeister stood his ground with the RSR!!
We all know about what happen at the end with vette No 3 and GT3 RSR #45. I am glad Bergmeister stood his ground with the RSR!!
I dont know about you guys but to me a bit of bumping and tapping on the bumper to unsettle the car infront happens and should be expected racing. Was Jan at the wrong to bump Joerg Bergmeisterthe turn prior? I dont think so but I know some of you might argue with me on this point. I absolutely do think however that the Porsche driver should not have at any stage purposely push someone to the wall with the aim of causing the other person to crash out. Those types/impact of crashes have caused deaths, the last thing I want to see is another driver dieing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeyvQcciTQ
From: http://www.oneighturbo.com/2009/10/1...p-controversy/
Bergmeister is an idiot… There is an un-said rule on the racing track for hitting or spinning someone: do it to someone, and expect you’re going to get revenge while still on track. Fair is fair. But this incident at Laguna Seca was over the line, and far beyond the “un-said rule”. Up to the finish-line incident, Bergmeister and Magnusson had a great battle with some aggressive, but fairly clean racing. Bergmeister was beat going up to the finish-line, and Bergmeister stupidly saw the “red mist”, drove Magnusson all the way to the wall, and then continued to push into him even after the Corvette was past the Porsche. The Corvette was obviously more than 3/4 past the Porsche, otherwise the Porsche would not have been able to spin the Corvette in the right-rear 1/4 panel. At some point, Bergmeister needed to stop driving Magnusson into the wall. What he did was stupid, dangerous, and uncalled for. Bergmeister had fairly lost the battle, and spinning someone into a very bad accident is not smart. Hence, why Bergmeister is an idiot. – Jameson Riley – Riley Racing
The last few minutes of the Monterey Sports Car Challenge at Laguna Seca featured some of the most exciting racing in ALMS history, bar none. Unfortunately, due to the outcome of the race that had one team crashing while the other claimed victory, fans from both camps are undoubtedly claiming it’s the other guy’s fault. I think that Magnussen clearly had the faster car in the final minutes and made multiple attempts to pass Bergmiester. Bergmister was driving defensively and rebuked Magnussen on several attempts at being passed by forcing Jan outside and off-track. I think most fans from both camps will agree that up to that point, it was hard but clean racing by both teams. The real contention is what happened at turn 11 and then on the straight leading to the finish line. Magnussen claims that at turn 11, Bergmiester “parked” the car with a hard brake and that he (Mags) didn’t see it in time and the Corvette bumped the back of the Flying Lizards Porsche. With both cars now roaring down the straight, Bergmiester appears to have taken an unnatural exit line that pushed Jan towards the left wall. Magnussen had to be leading Bergmiester at the point in which contact was made as how else could the #3 Corvette spin out in front of the #45 Porsche if it wasn’t leading at the moment of contact.
Magnussen is quoted as saying “It was a drag race up the hill, and I managed to get ahead of him. Then he turned me into the wall, and he kept turning in. Then I spun around the nose of his car.” whereas the Flying Lizards press release says “The No. 3 moved to go past the No. 45, but without enough room to maneuver, the two cars made contact, sending the No. 3 spinning across the track in front of the No. 45, with a hard impact into the far concrete wall.” Race officials should look at the footage to determine who made the contact and if it was “unavoidable contact” that resulted in the Corvette being spun out into the inside right wall.
Corvette fans would probably be more fired up over this incident if Corvette Racing was competing for the Manufacturer and Driver’s championships. If you talk to anyone that’s covered ALMS and Le Mans, they all pretty much say the same two things: Corvette’s drivers are aggressive but very professional in their conduct. Although Gavin and Beretta both had their issues in the No.4 Corvette at Laguna Seca, this was the exception and not the norm. The real problem I have is the comments coming from the Porsche camp calling the Corvette Racing drivers thugs and unprofessional and making statements like “Oh, how wonderful GT2 was before the Corvettes showed up.” Well, sorry to break it to you, but the Corvettes are here, we are aggressive, and we are racing for the win. See you in 2010! – Keith Cornett – CorvetteBlogger.com
Bergmeister is an idiot… There is an un-said rule on the racing track for hitting or spinning someone: do it to someone, and expect you’re going to get revenge while still on track. Fair is fair. But this incident at Laguna Seca was over the line, and far beyond the “un-said rule”. Up to the finish-line incident, Bergmeister and Magnusson had a great battle with some aggressive, but fairly clean racing. Bergmeister was beat going up to the finish-line, and Bergmeister stupidly saw the “red mist”, drove Magnusson all the way to the wall, and then continued to push into him even after the Corvette was past the Porsche. The Corvette was obviously more than 3/4 past the Porsche, otherwise the Porsche would not have been able to spin the Corvette in the right-rear 1/4 panel. At some point, Bergmeister needed to stop driving Magnusson into the wall. What he did was stupid, dangerous, and uncalled for. Bergmeister had fairly lost the battle, and spinning someone into a very bad accident is not smart. Hence, why Bergmeister is an idiot. – Jameson Riley – Riley Racing
The last few minutes of the Monterey Sports Car Challenge at Laguna Seca featured some of the most exciting racing in ALMS history, bar none. Unfortunately, due to the outcome of the race that had one team crashing while the other claimed victory, fans from both camps are undoubtedly claiming it’s the other guy’s fault. I think that Magnussen clearly had the faster car in the final minutes and made multiple attempts to pass Bergmiester. Bergmister was driving defensively and rebuked Magnussen on several attempts at being passed by forcing Jan outside and off-track. I think most fans from both camps will agree that up to that point, it was hard but clean racing by both teams. The real contention is what happened at turn 11 and then on the straight leading to the finish line. Magnussen claims that at turn 11, Bergmiester “parked” the car with a hard brake and that he (Mags) didn’t see it in time and the Corvette bumped the back of the Flying Lizards Porsche. With both cars now roaring down the straight, Bergmiester appears to have taken an unnatural exit line that pushed Jan towards the left wall. Magnussen had to be leading Bergmiester at the point in which contact was made as how else could the #3 Corvette spin out in front of the #45 Porsche if it wasn’t leading at the moment of contact.
Magnussen is quoted as saying “It was a drag race up the hill, and I managed to get ahead of him. Then he turned me into the wall, and he kept turning in. Then I spun around the nose of his car.” whereas the Flying Lizards press release says “The No. 3 moved to go past the No. 45, but without enough room to maneuver, the two cars made contact, sending the No. 3 spinning across the track in front of the No. 45, with a hard impact into the far concrete wall.” Race officials should look at the footage to determine who made the contact and if it was “unavoidable contact” that resulted in the Corvette being spun out into the inside right wall.
Corvette fans would probably be more fired up over this incident if Corvette Racing was competing for the Manufacturer and Driver’s championships. If you talk to anyone that’s covered ALMS and Le Mans, they all pretty much say the same two things: Corvette’s drivers are aggressive but very professional in their conduct. Although Gavin and Beretta both had their issues in the No.4 Corvette at Laguna Seca, this was the exception and not the norm. The real problem I have is the comments coming from the Porsche camp calling the Corvette Racing drivers thugs and unprofessional and making statements like “Oh, how wonderful GT2 was before the Corvettes showed up.” Well, sorry to break it to you, but the Corvettes are here, we are aggressive, and we are racing for the win. See you in 2010! – Keith Cornett – CorvetteBlogger.com
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The Riley racing guy makes no mention whatsoever of Jan's dive bomb bump from several car lengths back, talk about idiocracy. Talking about he had him beat like he earned it legitimately.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
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What a crazy end... The Porsche did drive the inside line however he was closing the door on the Vette trying to take advantage of the BS bump to the Porsche on the drivers rear that was enough to move him over for the almost pass however the wall moves toward the trackside and the vette did not have enough speed to make a clean pass in time to get in front of the Porsche before clipping the wall. That is what caused the wreck not the Porsche protecting his lead; especially when he is hit from behind like that. If the Porsche wanted to put the vette in the wall he would have driven into him and hit him however it is clear as they neared the end of the wall where it comes back in track side and the vette clearly did not have the room to make the pass.
The Porsche did turn out and brake for the Vette. If he really was out to check the vette into the wall he would have stayed in the gas and turned into the vette. Could the Porsche have gone wide and let the vette go by??? Of course however what racer would give an open door to anyone especially after being hit from behind like that....
See the picture for the angle of the Porsche and his brake lights are on clearly showing the Porsche not trying to wreck the vette. There is nothing wrong with trying to protect your position. The close situation was caused by both drivers’ emotions however the ultimate result of the crash was the fault of the vette being reckless.
The driver of the vette had been around that wall all day and knew he had very little room to make that pass on the inside yet took that chance just as he jumped the pit lane. He is willing to risk everyone’s safety for his own gain and unfortunately destroyed his car and his chances for a win by tapping the Porsche over to take a dangerous pass on the inside. He rolled the dice and lost.
The Porsche did turn out and brake for the Vette. If he really was out to check the vette into the wall he would have stayed in the gas and turned into the vette. Could the Porsche have gone wide and let the vette go by??? Of course however what racer would give an open door to anyone especially after being hit from behind like that....
See the picture for the angle of the Porsche and his brake lights are on clearly showing the Porsche not trying to wreck the vette. There is nothing wrong with trying to protect your position. The close situation was caused by both drivers’ emotions however the ultimate result of the crash was the fault of the vette being reckless.
The driver of the vette had been around that wall all day and knew he had very little room to make that pass on the inside yet took that chance just as he jumped the pit lane. He is willing to risk everyone’s safety for his own gain and unfortunately destroyed his car and his chances for a win by tapping the Porsche over to take a dangerous pass on the inside. He rolled the dice and lost.
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didn't one of the vettes try to outbrake brahbam in the p1 car on a restart that started a huge incident? cmon, it's not hard racing at that point. just ridiculous. why on earth would a gt2 car try to dive to the inside of a prototype going into a turn??? we'll see how well they do next year with a legitimate engine.
thot of another way, that wreckless driving cost taxpayers a lot of money! haha. go thugs!
thot of another way, that wreckless driving cost taxpayers a lot of money! haha. go thugs!
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didn't one of the vettes try to outbrake brahbam in the p1 car on a restart that started a huge incident? cmon, it's not hard racing at that point. just ridiculous. why on earth would a gt2 car try to dive to the inside of a prototype going into a turn??? we'll see how well they do next year with a legitimate engine.
thot of another way, that wreckless driving cost taxpayers a lot of money! haha. go thugs!
thot of another way, that wreckless driving cost taxpayers a lot of money! haha. go thugs!
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Agreed, but they also cost the #92 BMW a shot at the podium with that bonehead supposed "mistake" earlier in the race.
They've been driving overly aggressive since Mid-Ohio, it's their patented dive-bomb followed by the push off the track. Ask Ferrari, they know about it along with everyone else. They don't give room and actually race to the next corner, they just put a fender or bumper on you, or literally cut the corner off everytime. It's GM's NASCAR mentality. I hope ALMS and IMSA has the ballz to let GM and Corvette know this isn't Grand Am Rolex racing or NASCAR. Just because GM is willing to destroy their race cars every race in order to win doesn't give them the right to lay fenders on everybody else's 500K+ race cars. They probably have the most potent cars in the field, so relying on constantly overly aggressive or downright dirty moves makes them pretty pathetic IMO.
Trust me, there was a whole paddock full of racers and teams secretely saying "thanks Jorg".
They've been driving overly aggressive since Mid-Ohio, it's their patented dive-bomb followed by the push off the track. Ask Ferrari, they know about it along with everyone else. They don't give room and actually race to the next corner, they just put a fender or bumper on you, or literally cut the corner off everytime. It's GM's NASCAR mentality. I hope ALMS and IMSA has the ballz to let GM and Corvette know this isn't Grand Am Rolex racing or NASCAR. Just because GM is willing to destroy their race cars every race in order to win doesn't give them the right to lay fenders on everybody else's 500K+ race cars. They probably have the most potent cars in the field, so relying on constantly overly aggressive or downright dirty moves makes them pretty pathetic IMO.
Trust me, there was a whole paddock full of racers and teams secretely saying "thanks Jorg".
I think many said it out loud at the paddock that day. I don't know Federal bail out of GM has to do with their aggressive driving but they sure drove the vette like it was stolen. Heck, why be cautious when you get to use "free" tax dollar to help run a race team where as other had to work hard to build and sustain their team
The Riley racing guy makes no mention whatsoever of Jan's dive bomb bump from several car lengths back, talk about idiocracy. Talking about he had him beat like he earned it legitimately.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
Last edited by mikymu; Oct 15, 2009 at 02:08 PM.
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The Riley racing guy makes no mention whatsoever of Jan's dive bomb bump from several car lengths back, talk about idiocracy. Talking about he had him beat like he earned it legitimately.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
You may get away with that type of crap during the course of the race passing lapped cars or something, but you don't get away with that on the last corner of the last lap of the race after having already pulled a bonehead move trying to pass in pit lane.
Joerg did not purposely push Jan into the wall, he closed the door and kept a straight line that forced Jan to make a decision, lift or crash, this is common in racing, shut the door and force the opponent to leave the track into the dirt, or lift. Only this time there was a wall there and Jan tried to shut the door back on Joerg and spun himself out almost taking Joerg out with him.
Corvette Racing's reputation proceeds them, time for them to drive like their doing something other than demolition derby.
1:55 on the video shows an Magnussen trying to pass on the outside of Jorg Bergmeister. From the looks of it the initial bump was cased by Jorg loosing his rear end however as you can see he runs Jan out to the gravel. This isnt about shutting the door and limiting room but purposely pushing abother car out.
There was nothing on the corvette tap (3:05), it mearly unsettled the car infront slightly. I see this happen in racing all the time especially on the last lap when the guy infront is too busy looking at his mirrors, protecting his lead and blocking than driving faster to prevent from being caught.
Then finally the crash at 3:07, you can clearly see Jorg Bergmeistergoing from one side of the track to the other. There is a difference between protecting the line youve chosen and blocking. I think moving over one side to the other side of the track isnt very sportsmanlike but I have got no problem with it. However what Jorg did when the Corvette finally got infront of him was downright disgracefull, you simply should not cause accidents especially on a fast straight away where the crash is going to be high speed.
You cant force a car to make a "lift or crash" decision when that car is infront of you. I also do not see anything wrong with trying to pass on the pit lane straight, it actually looks like a good passing area.
See the picture for the angle of the Porsche and his brake lights are on clearly showing the Porsche not trying to wreck the vette. There is nothing wrong with trying to protect your position. The close situation was caused by both drivers’ emotions however the ultimate result of the crash was the fault of the vette being reckless.
The brake lights are on for the Porsche because the vette already lost control and was coming around straight across the Porsche and onto the oncoming wall. There is something wrong whenm your trying to protect your position by slamming another car to the wall and causing a big shunt. Jan was clearly infront at that stage, Jorg simply had the red mist and purposely took out Jan by hitting him on the side (in my opinion) behind the A pillar, causing the Corvette to spin around.
Jorg Bergmeister should try his hand at being a policeman, he has that move down pat.
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Oh suck. I'm actually hoping the GTR returns to it's 2001-2002 form.
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1:55 on the video shows an Magnussen trying to pass on the outside of Jorg Bergmeister. From the looks of it the initial bump was cased by Jorg loosing his rear end however as you can see he runs Jan out to the gravel. This isnt about shutting the door and limiting room but purposely pushing abother car out.
There was nothing on the corvette tap (3:05), it mearly unsettled the car infront slightly. I see this happen in racing all the time especially on the last lap when the guy infront is too busy looking at his mirrors, protecting his lead and blocking than driving faster to prevent from being caught.
Then finally the crash at 3:07, you can clearly see Jorg Bergmeistergoing from one side of the track to the other. There is a difference between protecting the line youve chosen and blocking. I think moving over one side to the other side of the track isnt very sportsmanlike but I have got no problem with it. However what Jorg did when the Corvette finally got infront of him was downright disgracefull, you simply should not cause accidents especially on a fast straight away where the crash is going to be high speed.
You cant force a car to make a "lift or crash" decision when that car is infront of you. I also do not see anything wrong with trying to pass on the pit lane straight, it actually looks like a good passing area.
The brake lights are on for the Porsche because the vette already lost control and was coming around straight across the Porsche and onto the oncoming wall. There is something wrong whenm your trying to protect your position by slamming another car to the wall and causing a big shunt. Jan was clearly infront at that stage, Jorg simply had the red mist and purposely took out Jan by hitting him on the side (in my opinion) behind the A pillar, causing the Corvette to spin around.
[/font][/color]Jorg Bergmeister should try his hand at being a policeman, he has that move down pat.
There was nothing on the corvette tap (3:05), it mearly unsettled the car infront slightly. I see this happen in racing all the time especially on the last lap when the guy infront is too busy looking at his mirrors, protecting his lead and blocking than driving faster to prevent from being caught.
Then finally the crash at 3:07, you can clearly see Jorg Bergmeistergoing from one side of the track to the other. There is a difference between protecting the line youve chosen and blocking. I think moving over one side to the other side of the track isnt very sportsmanlike but I have got no problem with it. However what Jorg did when the Corvette finally got infront of him was downright disgracefull, you simply should not cause accidents especially on a fast straight away where the crash is going to be high speed.
You cant force a car to make a "lift or crash" decision when that car is infront of you. I also do not see anything wrong with trying to pass on the pit lane straight, it actually looks like a good passing area.
The brake lights are on for the Porsche because the vette already lost control and was coming around straight across the Porsche and onto the oncoming wall. There is something wrong whenm your trying to protect your position by slamming another car to the wall and causing a big shunt. Jan was clearly infront at that stage, Jorg simply had the red mist and purposely took out Jan by hitting him on the side (in my opinion) behind the A pillar, causing the Corvette to spin around.
[/font][/color]Jorg Bergmeister should try his hand at being a policeman, he has that move down pat.
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BMW needs to make a really good street car then. Back in 2001-2002 they didn't build enough GTRs and they were going to be penalized 50 kg for 2002... so they just quit.
Porsche already proved that 25 kg is enough due to their poorer outings after Le Mans.
Porsche already proved that 25 kg is enough due to their poorer outings after Le Mans.
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Say what you will but the Vette's only chance was to bump and run. He bumped and bullied to force the Porsche to back off. The Porsche held it's ground and the Vette suffered the consequences. The 45 car wasn't in the mood to be intimidated and held fast. Good for them. When you look at the bumper car bull**** that the vettes engaged in during the course of the race you can't help but think that they got their just reward.
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Unfortunately I feel like BMW is going more towards mass production "green" cars like Toyota and Mazda, than true performance cars. These new Bimmers need to lose weight (including my E92 M3). We'll see what happens in the next generation M3.
