it was an interesting exchange on rennlist. i am not doing any club racing so was wandering if anybody here does club racing events in a gt3 based car and has an opinion on this:
----------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
996 GT3 is a fast DE car, spec boxster is a race car, so there's really no comparison. I'm only looking for a race car, I've already won my DE championship.

Absolutely, Apples and Oranges

------------------------------------

 

what's to comment on? I think you might be mis-informed that folks who club race enhance their suspensions, etc to street-GT3 spec. A winning club race car (944, boxster, 911, GT3, etc) will have a suspension far superior to a street stock GT3. There could be many other things different (I'm not up on SPBOX rules), like maybe solid engine mounts, exhaust, etc.

Comparing a street GT3 (or any other car) to a race-prepped car is apples and oranges.

If one wanted a DE car, you might say - why by a race prepped xxxx (Box, etc) when you can buy a GT3 that performs well out of the gate. That's a fair question for some DE folks, but not for racers - it's really misplaced as anything out of the gate won't be competitive in a race, unless it's completely showroom stock class.

 

I meant to also add that another huge difference is safety, including seats, belts, cage, fire suppression, nets, kill switch, etc.

Now - if you want to race prep a GT3, that's another $15-25k (just guessing), and again you're talking apples to oranges...

 

obviously a talk was about 996 spec or 996 gt3 race prepped car, not about stock street GT3 car. and spec boxster was claimed to be a superior car compared to race prepped 996 gt3. which was interesting for me to hear.

 

I read the htread and paid particular attn to the bit that you quoted and I didn't read it that the SPBOX was superior to the GT3, just different. Maybe I missed something...
When you suggested to just buy a GT3 for $40k, it seemed that you were comparing a street car to a race car, and someone pointed out that it was apples and oranges. That's how I read it anyway...

 

i guess people are mostly concerned about target class to race with than about the car itself - i understand it now that SPBOX is represented way better than anything else. perhaps it makes some sense.

now as of price/money talk - i do not know of any $10K boxsters for sale which engines/trannies will be in race-ready condition. boxsters in a relatively good condition which i see on cars.com do cost $25K-$30K and price to redo it o race specs is not that different from what should be spent on GT3 car, if not less as for GT3 suspension you would need to replace less parts than in a boxster and COs do cost pretty much the same. So essentially it gets to what was discussed there - total build price of race spes boxster of $50k or so - where it starts to make some sense (to me at least) to start from street GT3 car instead of a 3.4L boxster.

 

A spec boxter on a course like Streets of Willow is going to be hard to beat. Actually, hard to beat on any track actually. I cannot remember exactly what the suspension rules and weight rules are on these cars but I know they are extremely (read scary) light. A spec boxters power to weight ratio is pretty crazy even with a stock engine (which I am pretty sure is required). Suspension mods can get pretty extensive so these things are really true to form threats on the track. If you just wanted to get into competative club racing, a cheap 10K boxter would not be bad place to start and the transition to spec regulations would be easy down the road. To me, starting with a boxter and working your way towareds spec racing would make more sense than trying to get into say GT class racing with a street GT3 since you would be racing against some seriously mean cars. Not sure if this helps.....

Jason

 

It's not about having the fastest car on the track, but getting into a class that is competitive. With a spec GT3, you might be the only car in your J race. With a SPBOX, you might be in a 10-15 car field each race. You will definitely be able to dice it up with someone in the same speed category.

As for boxsters, KBB trade in on a good 1997 with 80K miles is only $6000. A fair 1997 with 100K is only $5000. [You might even see lower prices if you check manheim] But you won't find one of those $5K car on cars.com, eBay or at a dealer. You need to know someone that knows someone, and be at the right place at the right time. The last cheap one I heard about was a potential trade in at carmax. Carmax said ~5K for the car. The person was not going to take 5K. Through some who-knows-who channels, the car sold for ~$7.5K as a donor SPB. WRT the engines, you can run with a 100K engine. Lots of folks do.

As a platform, the spec GT3 is going to be a much better car. You are already years ahead in technology and also in the car's starting point.

SPBOX HP/Weight is about the same F class. If you check the club race results, SPBs run about the same times as E/F cars on some tracks. This is pretty interesting given the fact that E/F get to run Hoosiers - whereas the SPB gets junky R-comps.

-td

 

Very few people race GT3s in the stock J and K classes, so limited competition. Also If you make any modifications outside those allowed, you are bumped to GTA which you would get clobbered as modified cup cars race in that class.

 

Just what Ryan said...

 

i have a bsr and working for my race license. its a blast and as quick as many high hp street cars around a track.

 

To start with, Spec Boxster is the car to have in my opinion.
However, slowly modifying your GT3 to become competitive is an exciting proposition, especially as you should be improving your skills as you are improving the car's performance.
Best, w

 

Efficiently it means - impossible to find.
but I do see your point here, may be such cars with 80k-100K miles do exist but it kinda worries me how much will you have to spend on engine and transmission repairs right away to get it back to proper running shape.
i just do not beleive you can go racing on gears that do have 100K miles on them already. engine will most definitely need new rings too, so, it is at least $10-15k or so job as i see it, i am not sure how much does it even cost to repair boxster engine to race specs. on miatas it is about of $6K.

way i see it - all that stuff has to be extremely carefuly precalculated when one decides to build a spec car and any spec car will be as good as base platform was. what do you actualy save if you start with a complete beater with 100K miles you got for $7K instead of relatively clean car with good engine for, say, $20K?

 

ehem...or there is GTC3 or GTA in one of these



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyON7Do-SUY

 

There are no guarantees with any used car that it will last. You might buy a $20K "gem" with an M96 engine that croaks in a week - or a $7K high mileage crap shoot that runs for years. No telling. Also, keep in mind that when you buy a $20K pristine machine, you are paying a premium for a great interior, a great exterior, etc. Neither of which is a relevant consideration for a race car. I would not pay a premium for a car with an immaculate interior that is coming right out. You can get a salvage title 97 boxster that will be a great race car as long as there are no major tub issues.

Also, it appears that you have already started down the slippery slope of racing which I call "getting pissed at your wallet." Sure you can buy a new engine, new transmission, new wheels, etc (basically new everything) right away and get the cost of a SPB to skyrocket. But the whole point of the SPB class is to keep costs down. Of course, there are some people with keys to the bank spend that don't care about costs and spend lots of money to buy fast.

Check with the SPB folks you know to see how many have new engines. I'd be interested to see what the statistics show. Maybe post a poll on Rennlist to find out.

-td