GT3 Runs 12.01@118!
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Originally Posted by rajtt
As LUIS opined and as substantiated by both C&D's and MT's tests, the difference between these two cars is a lot closer than you'd like to believe! In any real world comparison, this would be a driver's race with the 997 having an edge.
Certainly not my opinioin so that would equate to putting words in my mouth.
Certainly not my opinioin so that would equate to putting words in my mouth.
Alan
Last edited by 6088TTS; Jan 29, 2007 at 04:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by rajtt
Gear Ratio Comparison (same rear end ratio of 3.44:1):
Gea---------996 GT3--------------997 GT3
1-----------3.82------------------3.82
2-----------2.15------------------2.26
3-----------1.56------------------1.64
4-----------1.21------------------1.29
5-----------1.00------------------1.06
6-----------0.85------------------0.92
While 1st is identical, 2nd through 5th are roughly 5% shorter on the 997 (6th being 8% shorter). Not a signifcant difference but it takes advantage of the slightly higher redline on the 997 (8400 vs. 8200 rpm).
Upon further reseraching into the curb weights, I've gotten widly varying numbers for the 996, so the weight difference between the two may not be nearly as significant as I'd estimated based on the two C&D reports. This also restores my faith in Porsche's focus on weight reduction on these cars. I apologize for any confusion that this may have caused. C&D's measured poundage of 3240 for the 997 GT3 certainly seems off the mark!
Gea---------996 GT3--------------997 GT3
1-----------3.82------------------3.82
2-----------2.15------------------2.26
3-----------1.56------------------1.64
4-----------1.21------------------1.29
5-----------1.00------------------1.06
6-----------0.85------------------0.92
While 1st is identical, 2nd through 5th are roughly 5% shorter on the 997 (6th being 8% shorter). Not a signifcant difference but it takes advantage of the slightly higher redline on the 997 (8400 vs. 8200 rpm).
Upon further reseraching into the curb weights, I've gotten widly varying numbers for the 996, so the weight difference between the two may not be nearly as significant as I'd estimated based on the two C&D reports. This also restores my faith in Porsche's focus on weight reduction on these cars. I apologize for any confusion that this may have caused. C&D's measured poundage of 3240 for the 997 GT3 certainly seems off the mark!
The highest HP on a 996 is 380 rwhp...most were around 360+, I would think that the 997 is about 20 rwhp more with some on this comming from the free flowing exhaust.
The 997 is a quicker car with out doubt but cars being this close will come down to the driver..as said with the 997 having an edge... leaving both stock.
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There are plenty of tests already from European magazines with both the 997 GT3 RS and GT3. Actual Weight (real weight, not manufacturer suggested weight) is between 3,250 lbs and 3350 lbs.
When drag racing with R-comp tires, the 60' times are improved and the ET is lower. I ran 11.82 on my 996 GT3 with skinny 285 Dunlop SSR (race tires) stock gears and not nearly as light as the car is right now. I also ran 12.2 with the totally stock car and 1,000 miles (posted in this forum),. The 996 GT3 tested by Motor Trend at 12.0 on the 1/4 mile had street tires and steel brakes. PCCB cars are faster to the 1/4 mile. Put a set of MPSC on the 996 GT3 and the car should drop 2 tenths on the 1/4 mile.
I'm pretty pissed at how much weight the car has gained. The car should have been lighter than the old one. The extra 150 lbs weight is what makes the car as fast as the old one on straight line. Braking should be better on the old car, because the lighter cars stop quicker. Handling seems to be drastically improved in the new car, there were too many flaws on the old car suspension.
Where did the car gain the weight?
- Heavier dashboard
- Heavier Seats
- Reinforced Body (more metal)
- 19" bricks
- all the trunk lining
- PASM dampers
- Sunroof
- Brakes
- Larger fuel tank
Porsche only saved weight on the doors and front hood (aluminum) and the exhaust (-10 lbs)
When drag racing with R-comp tires, the 60' times are improved and the ET is lower. I ran 11.82 on my 996 GT3 with skinny 285 Dunlop SSR (race tires) stock gears and not nearly as light as the car is right now. I also ran 12.2 with the totally stock car and 1,000 miles (posted in this forum),. The 996 GT3 tested by Motor Trend at 12.0 on the 1/4 mile had street tires and steel brakes. PCCB cars are faster to the 1/4 mile. Put a set of MPSC on the 996 GT3 and the car should drop 2 tenths on the 1/4 mile.
I'm pretty pissed at how much weight the car has gained. The car should have been lighter than the old one. The extra 150 lbs weight is what makes the car as fast as the old one on straight line. Braking should be better on the old car, because the lighter cars stop quicker. Handling seems to be drastically improved in the new car, there were too many flaws on the old car suspension.
Where did the car gain the weight?
- Heavier dashboard
- Heavier Seats
- Reinforced Body (more metal)
- 19" bricks
- all the trunk lining
- PASM dampers
- Sunroof
- Brakes
- Larger fuel tank
Porsche only saved weight on the doors and front hood (aluminum) and the exhaust (-10 lbs)
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If RUF-Dallas can install the 3.8 445 Hp kit in the 997 GT3/GT3 RS, that would be great.
The RS can lose a lot of weight from stock:
- 10"/13" Dymag Wheels
- CGT Seats
- Muffler bypass pipes
- 997 GT3 Cup hood and front fenders
- PCCB
- All the trunk lining removed
- Lightweight battery
- HyperCoil custom springs (pretty light), and Moton MotorSport 3-way aluminum dampers
- No A/C
- RUF RS door panels
This could be a 2,800 lbs with close to 450Hp. Probably a $180k project, but still much better than anything else on that price range, including the much more expensive 997 RUF RGT.
The RS can lose a lot of weight from stock:
- 10"/13" Dymag Wheels
- CGT Seats
- Muffler bypass pipes
- 997 GT3 Cup hood and front fenders
- PCCB
- All the trunk lining removed
- Lightweight battery
- HyperCoil custom springs (pretty light), and Moton MotorSport 3-way aluminum dampers
- No A/C
- RUF RS door panels
This could be a 2,800 lbs with close to 450Hp. Probably a $180k project, but still much better than anything else on that price range, including the much more expensive 997 RUF RGT.
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT
There are plenty of tests already from European magazines with both the 997 GT3 RS and GT3. Actual Weight (real weight, not manufacturer suggested weight) is between 3,250 lbs and 3350 lbs.
When drag racing with R-comp tires, the 60' times are improved and the ET is lower. I ran 11.82 on my 996 GT3 with skinny 285 Dunlop SSR (race tires) stock gears and not nearly as light as the car is right now. I also ran 12.2 with the totally stock car and 1,000 miles (posted in this forum),. The 996 GT3 tested by Motor Trend at 12.0 on the 1/4 mile had street tires and steel brakes. PCCB cars are faster to the 1/4 mile. Put a set of MPSC on the 996 GT3 and the car should drop 2 tenths on the 1/4 mile.
I'm pretty pissed at how much weight the car has gained. The car should have been lighter than the old one. The extra 150 lbs weight is what makes the car as fast as the old one on straight line. Braking should be better on the old car, because the lighter cars stop quicker. Handling seems to be drastically improved in the new car, there were too many flaws on the old car suspension.
Where did the car gain the weight?
- Heavier dashboard
- Heavier Seats
- Reinforced Body (more metal)
- 19" bricks
- all the trunk lining
- PASM dampers
- Sunroof
- Brakes
- Larger fuel tank
Porsche only saved weight on the doors and front hood (aluminum) and the exhaust (-10 lbs)
When drag racing with R-comp tires, the 60' times are improved and the ET is lower. I ran 11.82 on my 996 GT3 with skinny 285 Dunlop SSR (race tires) stock gears and not nearly as light as the car is right now. I also ran 12.2 with the totally stock car and 1,000 miles (posted in this forum),. The 996 GT3 tested by Motor Trend at 12.0 on the 1/4 mile had street tires and steel brakes. PCCB cars are faster to the 1/4 mile. Put a set of MPSC on the 996 GT3 and the car should drop 2 tenths on the 1/4 mile.
I'm pretty pissed at how much weight the car has gained. The car should have been lighter than the old one. The extra 150 lbs weight is what makes the car as fast as the old one on straight line. Braking should be better on the old car, because the lighter cars stop quicker. Handling seems to be drastically improved in the new car, there were too many flaws on the old car suspension.
Where did the car gain the weight?
- Heavier dashboard
- Heavier Seats
- Reinforced Body (more metal)
- 19" bricks
- all the trunk lining
- PASM dampers
- Sunroof
- Brakes
- Larger fuel tank
Porsche only saved weight on the doors and front hood (aluminum) and the exhaust (-10 lbs)
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Originally Posted by Z06
Do you think that the 996 could be improved up to the level of the 997 in handling?
The biggest improvement on the 997 GT3 comes from the fixed geometry. The new uprights inherited from the study on the 996 GT3 RS fix the front and rear bump steer. The front track has been reduced (invoke understeer), and the rear track has been increased (better rear end stability).
PASM is an improvement for road driving, but I doubt it's an improvement for track driving. The 997S has faster Ring times with the Sport suspension, than with PASM. The Porsche race cars including the 997 GT3 Cup, RSR and RS Spyder don't use PASM.
So, get 997 GT3 RS front and rear carriers, rear subframe, F/R control arms, Moton 2-way, 600/800 springs, and enjoy. Probably $12k on parts for a $75k car. If you ever sell the 996 GT3, you can get it back to stock, and still get $7k-$8k for those suspension parts.
If you wait a year, you could get an used 997 GT3 for $90k or less.
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The red car in the C&D article is Euro spec, Euro seats and no air con. The 996GT3 did not come standard with air con, the 997GT3 DOES!!!!!
So all of the published weights of the 996GT3 are WITHOUT air con and the 997GT3's are WITH. So out of that 150lbs, remove 40lbs for the air con, and another 70-80 lbs for the seats.
Your left with a 30lbs difference in weight. The 997GT3 has a sunroof, which accounts for about 60lbs. The use of aluminum offsetted some of that extra weight.
US GT3 buyers still get screwed with the sunroof.
But 997GT3 Euro spec cars are lighter than the 996GT3 Euro cars, when you add the air con back in. That's the secret missing ingredient.
My point is pound for pound, the 997GT3 is faster and lighter than the 996GT3. Period. I'm sure all of you can find all the magazine articles you like to prove your points but it won't make a hill of effing beans difference if your not comparing apples to apples which you guys are obviously NOT doing in this discussion.
So all of the published weights of the 996GT3 are WITHOUT air con and the 997GT3's are WITH. So out of that 150lbs, remove 40lbs for the air con, and another 70-80 lbs for the seats.
Your left with a 30lbs difference in weight. The 997GT3 has a sunroof, which accounts for about 60lbs. The use of aluminum offsetted some of that extra weight.
US GT3 buyers still get screwed with the sunroof.
But 997GT3 Euro spec cars are lighter than the 996GT3 Euro cars, when you add the air con back in. That's the secret missing ingredient.
My point is pound for pound, the 997GT3 is faster and lighter than the 996GT3. Period. I'm sure all of you can find all the magazine articles you like to prove your points but it won't make a hill of effing beans difference if your not comparing apples to apples which you guys are obviously NOT doing in this discussion.
Last edited by rr4; Jan 30, 2007 at 11:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by rr4
The red car in the C&D article is Euro spec, Euro seats and no air con. The 996GT3 did not come standard with air con, the 997GT3 DOES!!!!!
So all of the published weights of the 996GT3 are WITHOUT air con and the 997GT3's are WITH. So out of that 150lbs, remove 40lbs for the air con, and another 70-80 lbs for the seats.
Your left with a 30lbs difference in weight. The 997GT3 has a sunroof, which accounts for about 60lbs. The use of aluminum offsetted some of that extra weight.
US GT3 buyers still get screwed with the sunroof.
But 997GT3 Euro spec cars are lighter than the 996GT3 Euro cars, when you add the air con back in. That's the secret missing ingredient.
My point is pound for pound, the 997GT3 is faster and lighter than the 996GT3. Period. I'm sure all of you can find all the magazine articles you like to prove your points but it won't make a hill of effing beans difference if your not comparing apples to apples which you guys are obviously NOT doing in this discussion.
So all of the published weights of the 996GT3 are WITHOUT air con and the 997GT3's are WITH. So out of that 150lbs, remove 40lbs for the air con, and another 70-80 lbs for the seats.
Your left with a 30lbs difference in weight. The 997GT3 has a sunroof, which accounts for about 60lbs. The use of aluminum offsetted some of that extra weight.
US GT3 buyers still get screwed with the sunroof.
But 997GT3 Euro spec cars are lighter than the 996GT3 Euro cars, when you add the air con back in. That's the secret missing ingredient.
My point is pound for pound, the 997GT3 is faster and lighter than the 996GT3. Period. I'm sure all of you can find all the magazine articles you like to prove your points but it won't make a hill of effing beans difference if your not comparing apples to apples which you guys are obviously NOT doing in this discussion.
I've seen plenty of SCCA Stock class 996 GT3 during my trips to National Autocrosses. They weigh 3005 lbs to 3080 lbs. My bone stock 996 GT3 with 1/8th of a gas tank weighed 3,133 lbs with A/C, tools, iron rotors, and full leather. Currently at 2860 lbs in full street trim, and 2750 lbs on SCCA FP specs.
The new car is faster, but mostly due to suspension improvements. Acceleration figures are so close, that it would be up to the driver's skill to get the most out of any car on straight line. If you get a 997 GT3, take it to the scale and check it yourself. You can also check a couple of articles posted here from Sport Auto, Evo and Auto und MotorSport with the weight on the Euro RS exceeding 3,200 lbs.
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996 Gt3
NJ-GT,
Have you run the 1/4 your car recently? I'm just wondering what the difference is now that it had been lightened significantly and regeared. I had regeared mine and stepped up the lsd ramp and wondered what the differnce in acceleration might be (car is out of my hands now). Thanks.
Have you run the 1/4 your car recently? I'm just wondering what the difference is now that it had been lightened significantly and regeared. I had regeared mine and stepped up the lsd ramp and wondered what the differnce in acceleration might be (car is out of my hands now). Thanks.
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT
With all due respect, the weights we should use are the ones from the electronic scales, and not the written manufacturer's bull****. Do a search and read about a couple of U.S 997 GT3 weighed recently (AWE Tuning and Garret's). Do the same search for actual (not magazine/manufacturer weights) on the 996 GT3.
I've seen plenty of SCCA Stock class 996 GT3 during my trips to National Autocrosses. They weigh 3005 lbs to 3080 lbs. My bone stock 996 GT3 with 1/8th of a gas tank weighed 3,133 lbs with A/C, tools, iron rotors, and full leather. Currently at 2860 lbs in full street trim, and 2750 lbs on SCCA FP specs.
The new car is faster, but mostly due to suspension improvements. Acceleration figures are so close, that it would be up to the driver's skill to get the most out of any car on straight line. If you get a 997 GT3, take it to the scale and check it yourself. You can also check a couple of articles posted here from Sport Auto, Evo and Auto und MotorSport with the weight on the Euro RS exceeding 3,200 lbs.
I've seen plenty of SCCA Stock class 996 GT3 during my trips to National Autocrosses. They weigh 3005 lbs to 3080 lbs. My bone stock 996 GT3 with 1/8th of a gas tank weighed 3,133 lbs with A/C, tools, iron rotors, and full leather. Currently at 2860 lbs in full street trim, and 2750 lbs on SCCA FP specs.
The new car is faster, but mostly due to suspension improvements. Acceleration figures are so close, that it would be up to the driver's skill to get the most out of any car on straight line. If you get a 997 GT3, take it to the scale and check it yourself. You can also check a couple of articles posted here from Sport Auto, Evo and Auto und MotorSport with the weight on the Euro RS exceeding 3,200 lbs.
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Originally Posted by NelsonF
NJ-GT,
Have you run the 1/4 your car recently? I'm just wondering what the difference is now that it had been lightened significantly and regeared. I had regeared mine and stepped up the lsd ramp and wondered what the differnce in acceleration might be (car is out of my hands now). Thanks.
Have you run the 1/4 your car recently? I'm just wondering what the difference is now that it had been lightened significantly and regeared. I had regeared mine and stepped up the lsd ramp and wondered what the differnce in acceleration might be (car is out of my hands now). Thanks.
Originally Posted by Z06
I also have my 996 GT3 a little bit lighter with the regear...when I ran against my old Z06 I would slowly walk away from him..his car is a 11.90 car..with his stock GT2 we are about even..who ever hit's it first wins..these 996 GT3'S modded should be able to do 11.60 to 11.80 in the quarter mile.