How do you design a car based on automanuals?

 

"And, BTW, for all of Clarkson's on-air BS, I read on Lambo Power that he ordered his Gallardo Spyder with eGear."

That he did.

As far as tracking Ferrari's or any other car for that matter, the main objective is to get around the track as fast as the car can take you. For those wannabees who live in the past and insist on manual, it really is quite a spectacle watching them miss and grind gears trying to reach that goal. You have to feel sorry for them and be amazed as to how vanity has clouded their good sense.

On the street, the argument for PDK is even more compelling. What is more tortuous than sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours shifting and engaging the clutch almost every 30 sec.? Why would anyone subject themselves to that abuse just because they feel more involved or one with the car.
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You should read up on the M5 saga. US customers cried foul (as I would) when the 7 speed SMG showed up w/ no plans for a manual. So, for the US only BMW brought out a 6 speed manual. But, initial reports are that it doesn't work well in the M5.

http://news.windingroad.com/tech/new...cked-up-to-be/

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89068

http://blogs.automobilemag.com/10054...-it/index.html

On the SMGIII:

"So what is the M5? In my mind, it's supposed the ultimate daily driver. It's the car that you can drive every day - normally, at ludicrous speeds, or anywhere in between. So it should be fun. A transmission that emulates a cervical adjustment from a heavy-handed chiropractor each and every time it shifts is not fun."

 

The M5 with the stick sucks for two reasons: It can't use the "good" gearbox because of the way the gears are arranged (i.e. only a computer can shift them) and also because the traction/stability control cannot be defeated in order to protect said gearbox. Not too long ago I read that only 7% of cars sold in the US had a manual transmission.... Europe is much higher %-age, but it's declining there, too.

 

Wow - I've never seen anyone with a double neg-rep...

 

Except for small handful of owners who race competitively, most enthusiasts do DEs and other untimed high speed driving events that are more centered around developing sound high speed driving skills than absolute lap times. You miss out on an integral part of the human-machine connection by removing the ability to use the clutch and gearshift.

 

Well hopefully Porsche will not go down the same path, I for one would be real dissapointed if they did.

 

Definitely agreed.

 

The M5 powertrain was designed exclusively for the 7 speed SMGIII. BMW miscalculated the NA market based on what Europeans are doing (dumping manual trannies for fully automatics and sequential manuals). Based on the low % of drivers in the US that drive a manual, BMW AG believed (and still does) that this is the way to go). When the outcry came from the NA market for a stick, they put it in, but it's...... clumsy, for lack of a better word.

At some point you reach a threshold of drivers that will ONLY drive a stick for the types of cars we are talking about. Someone earlier in this thread quoted 7% in the US. Maybe that is it and the same may go for Europeans, we'll see.

BMW AG has already announced that the new M3 will be available with both trannies. It's possible that the delay in launch could be to rectify the M5 situation and have the manual work as well, or better than the SMGIII. That or BMW is still trying to develope their version of the much anticipated double clutch system for the new M3.

I heard a rumor that the '08 GT3's would be offered with the PDK. Anyone else heard of this?

 

Heard that too. In a way, I hope it is PDK that is the next major upgrade for the GT3. That way, I don't have to agonize buying the new model.

 

PDK of course,

 

ha! exactly.

However, I might opt for the PDK if they produced street 962s. (just becuase they are absurdly fast).

BTW, Im going into convulsion, I havnt driven a manual in wuite some time. Maybe its time to take ole pops car out .... hehe

 

If people wanted to go around a track as fast as possible theyd buy a porsche

Shifting aids are exactly that...AIDS. I do not want!

 

It's interesting to read that some want to be more involved and in total control of their driving experience and consequently reject the PDK. The same control/involvement logic could be aplied to threshold braking vs. ABS. I've not read any gripes about ABS detracting from the driving experience.

 

Apples and oranges.

However, you will find owners that track their porsches do not enjoy the ABS cutting in. Atleast the 944 and 951 group. I would assume otheres too.

-Not having ABS is a safety issue so most people want it.
-Transimission have nothing to do with safety unless you want to argue that you have to concentrate on it....which is BS because it becomes second nature. And after lots of practice then you still cant concentrate on driving because your driving a manual then perhaps you shouldnt be driving at all.