Would you get DSG/PDK with your next GT2/3?
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Completely flawed comparison.
ABS doesn't detract from the driving experience b/c it's not intrusive in modern cars and for the most part you try to avoid relying on it. Sort of like the current generation of PSM. That is, ABS and PSM and TC etc irritate the purists b/c they can't stand the thought of 'driving a computer.' However, in practice, these systems are largely transparent, and when they do engage, they are a welcome intervention especially for novice and intermediate drivers.
OTOH, an F1/DSG/PDK tranny is never in the background, its effects only to be felt under certain circumstances. Rather, they change the entire personality of the car, and are always in the forefront.
Still further, ABS and threshold braking are not at odds with each other. Rather, the concept of threshold braking is still alive and well, as proper track driving still takes advantage of threshold braking. The same cannot be said of heel toeing and PDK.
Let's face it, you only have limited contact with the car. What you hear, what you see, and what you feel through the seat, through the wheel, through the pedals, and yes, through the gearshift and your left leg. Removal of the gearshift and left pedal removes valuable inputs.
As said many times before, for most an automanual will be faster on track, but for many, not all like NBerry, NOT more fun. And, the end of the day, we all drive for fun since we aren't making a living in the DE Grand Prix.
But to each his own. If you live in a world of video game insomnia, crave technology, are a shumi wannabe, or have diminishing motors skills and cannot be bothered with the 'chore' of a manual, the choice is clear. Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves in the Ferrari world for example, where 75% of their f430s have been neutered.
ABS doesn't detract from the driving experience b/c it's not intrusive in modern cars and for the most part you try to avoid relying on it. Sort of like the current generation of PSM. That is, ABS and PSM and TC etc irritate the purists b/c they can't stand the thought of 'driving a computer.' However, in practice, these systems are largely transparent, and when they do engage, they are a welcome intervention especially for novice and intermediate drivers.
OTOH, an F1/DSG/PDK tranny is never in the background, its effects only to be felt under certain circumstances. Rather, they change the entire personality of the car, and are always in the forefront.
Still further, ABS and threshold braking are not at odds with each other. Rather, the concept of threshold braking is still alive and well, as proper track driving still takes advantage of threshold braking. The same cannot be said of heel toeing and PDK.
Let's face it, you only have limited contact with the car. What you hear, what you see, and what you feel through the seat, through the wheel, through the pedals, and yes, through the gearshift and your left leg. Removal of the gearshift and left pedal removes valuable inputs.
As said many times before, for most an automanual will be faster on track, but for many, not all like NBerry, NOT more fun. And, the end of the day, we all drive for fun since we aren't making a living in the DE Grand Prix.
But to each his own. If you live in a world of video game insomnia, crave technology, are a shumi wannabe, or have diminishing motors skills and cannot be bothered with the 'chore' of a manual, the choice is clear. Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves in the Ferrari world for example, where 75% of their f430s have been neutered.
Last edited by frayed; Feb 10, 2007 at 08:42 AM.
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Originally Posted by frayed
Completely flawed comparison.
ABS doesn't detract from the driving experience b/c it's not intrusive in modern cars and for the most part you try to avoid relying on it. Sort of like the current generation of PSM. That is, ABS and PSM and TC etc irritate the purists b/c they can't stand the thought of 'driving a computer.' However, in practice, these systems are largely transparent, and when they do engage, they are a welcome intervention especially for novice and intermediate drivers.
OTOH, an F1/DSG/PDK tranny is never in the background, its effects only to be felt under certain circumstances. Rather, they change the entire personality of the car, and are always in the forefront.
Still further, ABS and threshold braking are not at odds with each other. Rather, the concept of threshold braking is still alive and well, as proper track driving still takes advantage of threshold braking. The same cannot be said of heel toeing and PDK.
Let's face it, you only have limited contact with the car. What you hear, what you see, and what you feel through the seat, through the wheel, through the pedals, and yes, through the gearshift and your left leg. Removal of the gearshift and left pedal removes valuable inputs.
As said many times before, for most an automanual will be faster on track, but for many, not all like NBerry, NOT more fun. And, the end of the day, we all drive for fun since we aren't making a living in the DE Grand Prix.
But to each his own. If you live in a world of video game insomnia, crave technology, are a shumi wannabe, or have diminishing motors skills and cannot be bothered with the 'chore' of a manual, the choice is clear. Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves in the Ferrari world for example, where 75% of their f430s have been neutered.
ABS doesn't detract from the driving experience b/c it's not intrusive in modern cars and for the most part you try to avoid relying on it. Sort of like the current generation of PSM. That is, ABS and PSM and TC etc irritate the purists b/c they can't stand the thought of 'driving a computer.' However, in practice, these systems are largely transparent, and when they do engage, they are a welcome intervention especially for novice and intermediate drivers.
OTOH, an F1/DSG/PDK tranny is never in the background, its effects only to be felt under certain circumstances. Rather, they change the entire personality of the car, and are always in the forefront.
Still further, ABS and threshold braking are not at odds with each other. Rather, the concept of threshold braking is still alive and well, as proper track driving still takes advantage of threshold braking. The same cannot be said of heel toeing and PDK.
Let's face it, you only have limited contact with the car. What you hear, what you see, and what you feel through the seat, through the wheel, through the pedals, and yes, through the gearshift and your left leg. Removal of the gearshift and left pedal removes valuable inputs.
As said many times before, for most an automanual will be faster on track, but for many, not all like NBerry, NOT more fun. And, the end of the day, we all drive for fun since we aren't making a living in the DE Grand Prix.
But to each his own. If you live in a world of video game insomnia, crave technology, are a shumi wannabe, or have diminishing motors skills and cannot be bothered with the 'chore' of a manual, the choice is clear. Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves in the Ferrari world for example, where 75% of their f430s have been neutered.
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I'd opt for DSG/PDK. Faster/Easier is better and I am not perfect and I usually do mess up a least one heel and toe down shift every track session which then messes up my lap becuase I am thinking what a idiot I am.
Also sometimes I stay in a higher gear because there really isn't much point shifting into a lower gear for those few seconds. It wastes time and speed shifting but if it were a simple paddle shift I would take advantage of being in the lower gear's power bands for those few seconds.
Also sometimes I stay in a higher gear because there really isn't much point shifting into a lower gear for those few seconds. It wastes time and speed shifting but if it were a simple paddle shift I would take advantage of being in the lower gear's power bands for those few seconds.
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I would take one with a real F1 style tranmission it it represented an advance in performance over the 6 speed.
I would never trade my SMG M5 for a 6 speed M5, in spite of some of the flaws in the BMW SMG.
JCM
I would never trade my SMG M5 for a 6 speed M5, in spite of some of the flaws in the BMW SMG.
JCM
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Originally Posted by flynduc
Don't get DSG because our wives (those who can't drive a stick) will take all your GT2/GT3s out for a spin!
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An acquantance asked me today about my experiences with my 360 as he's in the market. We talked a bit about F1 automanual vs. stick. That discussion made me watch this video again. Some of you don't get it, but those who do, do.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=55
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=55
Originally Posted by frayed
An acquantance asked me today about my experiences with my 360 as he's in the market. We talked a bit about F1 automanual vs. stick. That discussion made me watch this video again. Some of you don't get it, but those who do, do.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=55
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=55
Originally Posted by frayed
Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves in the Ferrari world for example, where 75% of their f430s have been neutered.
You make great obsevations that I agree with, but at the end of the day, it is about personal preference. For me, I'd not get a Porsche with PDK. At least not a Porsche I was planning on tracking. Losing those inputs is a sacrifice that I don't want to make.
But for other cars, a sequential-like shift technology is great. My Gallardo and F430 are Egear and F1, respectively. (Both come from Magnetti Marelli for what it's worth). If I could have gotten the RS4 with DSG I would have. The RS4 is fast and fun, but the inputs are so soft and 'squishy', which is appropriate for that car, that the DSG would have been a welcome convenience. The Cabrio, I would have gone with PDK if it were available. My R8 will be DSG... and if I get a 997 Turbo one day I'd probably get PDK just to try it.
But, the notion of a sequential shifter for the GT3 never entered my brain.
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we have an Audi A3 V6 with DSG an is for that kind of car! a normal car! is very funny to drive but you have no emotions!!!!!!
I would never ever buy a porsche with DSG!
porsche need a gerabox like SMG III of Bmw or F1 of Ferrari.......!!!!!!
when I have the M3....I can select how fast I want the gearbox change the gear!!!!!! and I have 2nd a 3rd gear wheel spinning!!!!!! and launch control!!!!!! That`s a gear box!!!!!!!!!!
I would never ever buy a porsche with DSG!
porsche need a gerabox like SMG III of Bmw or F1 of Ferrari.......!!!!!!
when I have the M3....I can select how fast I want the gearbox change the gear!!!!!! and I have 2nd a 3rd gear wheel spinning!!!!!! and launch control!!!!!! That`s a gear box!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm VERY VERY pro-dsg,smg,f1 or whatever the name will be. Electronic gearbox is the way to go.
Common, we have to be relistic, it's really really much faster then our hands and foot, much more precise and it's just quicker.
When we drive a porsche, what are we buying? Not only the brand and shape but actually the fun of it. Ok, most like it in Manual cos it's within our personal control, and many of us thought we did it better then the hydraulics. But imagine you do it 10,000 shift, will you miss one gear? I'm sure you will, even Shuey will. With these system you don't.
Your concentration in drivng the car is 100%. You focus on the corner speed, brake zone and I tell you, getting our Porsha into the corner is much much much fun then shifting the gears right.
How many of you have ever try breaking way after the usual breaking zone? I bet not much, but with Porsche's need of front weight transfer, we can actually do it so late that it just somehow exceeds many car's usual dymanics.
While trail braking, with such a rear weight biased car, do you still wanna manage your downshifts? Yes, but you better make sure you do it precisely.
Common, we have to be relistic, it's really really much faster then our hands and foot, much more precise and it's just quicker.
When we drive a porsche, what are we buying? Not only the brand and shape but actually the fun of it. Ok, most like it in Manual cos it's within our personal control, and many of us thought we did it better then the hydraulics. But imagine you do it 10,000 shift, will you miss one gear? I'm sure you will, even Shuey will. With these system you don't.
Your concentration in drivng the car is 100%. You focus on the corner speed, brake zone and I tell you, getting our Porsha into the corner is much much much fun then shifting the gears right.
How many of you have ever try breaking way after the usual breaking zone? I bet not much, but with Porsche's need of front weight transfer, we can actually do it so late that it just somehow exceeds many car's usual dymanics.
While trail braking, with such a rear weight biased car, do you still wanna manage your downshifts? Yes, but you better make sure you do it precisely.
.
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Think you'll have to get yourself behind a 997 GT3 Cup to actually understand how it feels to drive a porsche with the sequential.
Anyone tried Veyron? The gearbox in that car is worth more then a gt3.
Anyone tried Veyron? The gearbox in that car is worth more then a gt3.
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Originally Posted by wan888
Think you'll have to get yourself behind a 997 GT3 Cup to actually understand how it feels to drive a porsche with the sequential.
Anyone tried Veyron? The gearbox in that car is worth more then a gt3.
Anyone tried Veyron? The gearbox in that car is worth more then a gt3.
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