My Decision to change my Gallardo TT System
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Bring it on idiots! I could use a good laugh. In all seriousness, Ripper is right. Please respect the fact that this is not a bashing, but simply to be informative. People have made accusations towards him and he has had to respond and then his responses are taken as lashing out when those wouldn't have to be addressed if the accusations made by others weren't made in the first place. Did I confuse anybody? Kyle
Last edited by Top Gun Customz; Oct 30, 2008 at 03:58 PM.
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i fully agree that the build quality on the pics that were posted of the heffner TT kit are definetly NOT what i would expect for the kind of money that is paid (especially the cheap injectors, really?!!)
but i saw a heffner tt ford gt in person last weekend and had a chance to examine the engine bay for a bit, and everything that i could see (obviously you cant see 100% of the components and work) looked very good....definetly not like the pics you posted of your ttg.....maybe he has improved his build quality since the earlier cars?
or maybe just his fgt tt kit was designed better than his ttg kit?
but i saw a heffner tt ford gt in person last weekend and had a chance to examine the engine bay for a bit, and everything that i could see (obviously you cant see 100% of the components and work) looked very good....definetly not like the pics you posted of your ttg.....maybe he has improved his build quality since the earlier cars?
or maybe just his fgt tt kit was designed better than his ttg kit?
Underground Racing's TT GT build puts Heffner's to shame.
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Thank you for the responses.
I would like to see a few more Heffner and UR customers step up and speak out about their builds. Both positive and negative. Pictures also speak a 1000 words.
I have read over quite a few posts on lambopower and can't find much but positives. Although many members there seem to be bias and coached. I can also sense a lot of insecurities.
I also read posts on a Viper site called Viperalley. I see all kinds of responses there but discarded most of them due to the nature of that site. Its hard to determine fact from fiction.
I just cant understand why Heffners work has such a legendary status yet what I see in the pictures of Rippers G is unsettling.
For example; take the pump gas drags this year. I looked over the engine area of a Heffner built silver and blue Viper. It was done very well and the car ran faster than any other car there.
Has UGR ever competed in any races successfully or have had any TT cars of any make that have a lot of miles on them? I apologize upfront but I have not heard much about UR until these threads on this site. How many years has UR been building TT systems?
While I think the UR TT G system seems to have a lot of thought put into it, I still have to question what is the end result 1,2,3+ years from now.
What does UR's warranty cover?
I would like to see a few more Heffner and UR customers step up and speak out about their builds. Both positive and negative. Pictures also speak a 1000 words.
I have read over quite a few posts on lambopower and can't find much but positives. Although many members there seem to be bias and coached. I can also sense a lot of insecurities.
I also read posts on a Viper site called Viperalley. I see all kinds of responses there but discarded most of them due to the nature of that site. Its hard to determine fact from fiction.
I just cant understand why Heffners work has such a legendary status yet what I see in the pictures of Rippers G is unsettling.
For example; take the pump gas drags this year. I looked over the engine area of a Heffner built silver and blue Viper. It was done very well and the car ran faster than any other car there.
Has UGR ever competed in any races successfully or have had any TT cars of any make that have a lot of miles on them? I apologize upfront but I have not heard much about UR until these threads on this site. How many years has UR been building TT systems?
While I think the UR TT G system seems to have a lot of thought put into it, I still have to question what is the end result 1,2,3+ years from now.
What does UR's warranty cover?
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I have stayed out of this for the past couple weeks, but I feel compelled to state a few things in light of this thread and some post on here, and even some other threads. First, there have been a few, in this thread and others, who think a more fair comparison would be to see the Heffner/Ur systems compared after 7K-10K miles. I think they have TOTALLY missed the point. I respect their conviction in standing up for their tuner, but that doesn't change the obvious. Put 10K, 20K, 30K miles on the UR system and the only thing that would change, looks wise, would be the polished hot pipes would have some discoloring on them from heat. The welds wouldn't suddenly start looking hideous (refer to the "other" tuners water tank and the weld going across the top). Parts would not later show signs of being "tin-snipped". Cheap brass "T" fittings wouldn't start appearing. You wouldn't find factory panels that looked like a nest of mice chewed through them. This is not the only "other tuner" car I have seen first hand w/ this lack of quality. A friend of mine invited me to come over and look at his "other tuner" TT Gallardo over a year ago and I saw similar things when we started really inspecting the car from underneath. He, as well, was extremely disappointed. At that time I was contemplating doing a TT system on my car, but that turned me off instantly. That "other tuner" will have to step up his game if he wants to come close to competing in build quality.
Here is a quote from Jason Heffner to Ripper after Jason saw a similar thread on LamboPower...."Automotive technology is an ever evolving beast. Since you took delivery of your car there are a number of technological advancements that have become available to the tuner world." That statement is 100% accurate, and that would be an understandable defense if Ripper was only displeased with his performance level. BUT, a primary concern of his in his thread here is the quality of the build in which he spent around $60,000 for!! Some of this stuff was just recently discovered by Ripper.
One thing that shouldn't "evolve" in tuners in their commitment to quality. That should be there from their first build. This is not this tuners first car, he has probably built well over a hundred different vehicles (other models included) prior to this one, so to see this lack of quality, especially after that many builds, is discouraging. We are talking about the components being put in a LAMBORGHINI, not a Hyundai, although they shouldn't be put there either.
Ripper is taking a lot of flack for posting reasons why he is upset w/ his former tuner. Anyone contemplating spending that kind of money should know their options and should be aware of the advantages of what others offer and all the components being used in their car. People are not JUST concerned w/ reliability when they TT their car. That’s all some people want to talk about. That is a big factor, but build quality does not have to suffer to achieve that. If people want to send their car to Heffner, Ripper has no problem w/ that and neither should anyone. BUT, they should do their homework and see for themselves what exactly they will get for their money, as with any large purchase. This is simply informing the public of HIS reasons and impressions. No one can argue how someone else feels. Heffner customers call it bashing, but what would they call it if the situation were reversed?....probably "vindication", or "I told you so".
Kyle
Here is a quote from Jason Heffner to Ripper after Jason saw a similar thread on LamboPower...."Automotive technology is an ever evolving beast. Since you took delivery of your car there are a number of technological advancements that have become available to the tuner world." That statement is 100% accurate, and that would be an understandable defense if Ripper was only displeased with his performance level. BUT, a primary concern of his in his thread here is the quality of the build in which he spent around $60,000 for!! Some of this stuff was just recently discovered by Ripper.
One thing that shouldn't "evolve" in tuners in their commitment to quality. That should be there from their first build. This is not this tuners first car, he has probably built well over a hundred different vehicles (other models included) prior to this one, so to see this lack of quality, especially after that many builds, is discouraging. We are talking about the components being put in a LAMBORGHINI, not a Hyundai, although they shouldn't be put there either.
Ripper is taking a lot of flack for posting reasons why he is upset w/ his former tuner. Anyone contemplating spending that kind of money should know their options and should be aware of the advantages of what others offer and all the components being used in their car. People are not JUST concerned w/ reliability when they TT their car. That’s all some people want to talk about. That is a big factor, but build quality does not have to suffer to achieve that. If people want to send their car to Heffner, Ripper has no problem w/ that and neither should anyone. BUT, they should do their homework and see for themselves what exactly they will get for their money, as with any large purchase. This is simply informing the public of HIS reasons and impressions. No one can argue how someone else feels. Heffner customers call it bashing, but what would they call it if the situation were reversed?....probably "vindication", or "I told you so".
Kyle
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Care to share about your built?
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Ripper.....
Question for you. Your pictures are compelling and disturbing. However are you really expecting us to believe that you are putting approx $120k in mods into an 04? The car stock probably isn't worth that amount. To rip out $60k of work that is approx 10% off of power what you claim Heffner promised you and then to put in another $60k of work just doesn't seem plausible. While the UGR work looks great for the G, it seems completely unproven in the real world. 1/4 mile posts on Youtube are great.....but since I live in CA and they are on the east coast, I am looking for power with reliablility.
As somebody that is considering tting my g, I would appreciate a more detailed breakdown of what happened......like detail by detail. From what I understand this isn't your first Heffner vehicle....why is this build so diiferent?
Also wondering why most of other heffner customers aren't expressing the same issues? And again.....I want to emphasize I do not have a dog in this fight, except that I am considering modding my car and I would like honest feedback. Seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed and sucker punches thrown......I think we would we all really interested in what really happened and why u chose this route.
Question for you. Your pictures are compelling and disturbing. However are you really expecting us to believe that you are putting approx $120k in mods into an 04? The car stock probably isn't worth that amount. To rip out $60k of work that is approx 10% off of power what you claim Heffner promised you and then to put in another $60k of work just doesn't seem plausible. While the UGR work looks great for the G, it seems completely unproven in the real world. 1/4 mile posts on Youtube are great.....but since I live in CA and they are on the east coast, I am looking for power with reliablility.
As somebody that is considering tting my g, I would appreciate a more detailed breakdown of what happened......like detail by detail. From what I understand this isn't your first Heffner vehicle....why is this build so diiferent?
Also wondering why most of other heffner customers aren't expressing the same issues? And again.....I want to emphasize I do not have a dog in this fight, except that I am considering modding my car and I would like honest feedback. Seems like a lot of fingers are being pointed and sucker punches thrown......I think we would we all really interested in what really happened and why u chose this route.
Last edited by kinnsella; Oct 30, 2008 at 10:57 PM.
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Wow is all I can say...Ive witnessed the petty camp wars between these two for years at SororityAlley but this I never expected. I always thought both were on the same level quality and performancewise though UGR has most of the top records on the platforms they both mod. These pics are real eye openers.
I cant understand this kind of work being justified on a car of the Gallardo's calibur...wow..Electric tape, crappy ice box, butchered holes cut wow..The discolored piping is expected the other stuff no way for that money and on this platform..Looks like you had the prototype mockup and not the final production parts, labor.....I really hope the Heffner Vipers, FGT's and Gallardos dont look like this....
Since yours was the first I tend to believe that it had to be improved upon as I cant believe any other customers would be satisfied with this kind of shoddy work for the coin they paid. If Heffners Gallardo systems all looked like this there would be more than just Ripper complaining about it to be fair. Ripper it appears you got a raw deal for your money. I hope the other 20+ TT Heffner Gallardos out there dont have this lack of quality in them.
I cant understand this kind of work being justified on a car of the Gallardo's calibur...wow..Electric tape, crappy ice box, butchered holes cut wow..The discolored piping is expected the other stuff no way for that money and on this platform..Looks like you had the prototype mockup and not the final production parts, labor.....I really hope the Heffner Vipers, FGT's and Gallardos dont look like this....
Since yours was the first I tend to believe that it had to be improved upon as I cant believe any other customers would be satisfied with this kind of shoddy work for the coin they paid. If Heffners Gallardo systems all looked like this there would be more than just Ripper complaining about it to be fair. Ripper it appears you got a raw deal for your money. I hope the other 20+ TT Heffner Gallardos out there dont have this lack of quality in them.
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[quote=lemansz20;2113824]GUYS SERIOUSLY, any person with a brain should be able to understand this. It is completely unfair to show pictures of a TT kit that has a large amount of miles on it, to a car that hasnt even been started once, NOT ONCE. Topgun,Ripper, you guys are pathetic, just reading all your responses are amazing. The real idiot is ripper, for talking all this junk, and he is the one who WENT TO HEFFNERS SHOP, SAW a tt car, and SAID WOW this looks really good, give me one. Stop deleting my posts b/c you know im right.
Shiny pipes and something that looks nice and clean doesnt make it amazing quality, long term and performance does, sorry to tell you. Most of the time, FUNCTION OVER FORM. If you want you can go on ebay and buy a shiny polished intercooler, or buy the black one from aps tuner and get quality. SAD SAD[/quote
I copied the following so I didn't' have to retype it for you. The entire post is above (Top Guns Custom):
I have stayed out of this for the past couple weeks, but I feel compelled to state a few things in light of this thread and some post on here, and even some other threads. First, there have been a few, in this thread and others, who think a more fair comparison would be to see the Heffner/Ur systems compared after 7K-10K miles. I think they have TOTALLY missed the point. I respect their conviction in standing up for their tuner, but that doesn't change the obvious. Put 10K, 20K, 30K miles on the UR system and the only thing that would change, looks wise, would be the polished hot pipes would have some discoloring on them from heat. The welds wouldn't suddenly start looking hideous (refer to the "other" tuners water tank and the weld going across the top). Parts would not later show signs of being "tin-snipped". Cheap brass "T" fittings wouldn't start appearing. You wouldn't find factory panels that looked like a nest of mice chewed through them. This is not the only "other tuner" car I have seen first hand w/ this lack of quality. A friend of mine invited me to come over and look at his "other tuner" TT Gallardo over a year ago and I saw similar things when we started really inspecting the car from underneath. He, as well, was extremely disappointed. At that time I was contemplating doing a TT system on my car, but that turned me off instantly. That "other tuner" will have to step up his game if he wants to come close to competing in build quality.
Does anyone really believe that UR would take all of the time required paying attention to the build details as they did, and not spend the same time engineering the mechanical side of the install? Seriously?
The UR will prove to be as reliable as the Heffner cars. UR has a long reliabilty track record in the Viper world already.
Its beyond ridiculous that one could look at a Heffner car, take into account the time spent on fit & finish, and draw the conclusion that it will be more reliable than the install put forth by UR
Shiny pipes and something that looks nice and clean doesnt make it amazing quality, long term and performance does, sorry to tell you. Most of the time, FUNCTION OVER FORM. If you want you can go on ebay and buy a shiny polished intercooler, or buy the black one from aps tuner and get quality. SAD SAD[/quote
I copied the following so I didn't' have to retype it for you. The entire post is above (Top Guns Custom):
I have stayed out of this for the past couple weeks, but I feel compelled to state a few things in light of this thread and some post on here, and even some other threads. First, there have been a few, in this thread and others, who think a more fair comparison would be to see the Heffner/Ur systems compared after 7K-10K miles. I think they have TOTALLY missed the point. I respect their conviction in standing up for their tuner, but that doesn't change the obvious. Put 10K, 20K, 30K miles on the UR system and the only thing that would change, looks wise, would be the polished hot pipes would have some discoloring on them from heat. The welds wouldn't suddenly start looking hideous (refer to the "other" tuners water tank and the weld going across the top). Parts would not later show signs of being "tin-snipped". Cheap brass "T" fittings wouldn't start appearing. You wouldn't find factory panels that looked like a nest of mice chewed through them. This is not the only "other tuner" car I have seen first hand w/ this lack of quality. A friend of mine invited me to come over and look at his "other tuner" TT Gallardo over a year ago and I saw similar things when we started really inspecting the car from underneath. He, as well, was extremely disappointed. At that time I was contemplating doing a TT system on my car, but that turned me off instantly. That "other tuner" will have to step up his game if he wants to come close to competing in build quality.
Does anyone really believe that UR would take all of the time required paying attention to the build details as they did, and not spend the same time engineering the mechanical side of the install? Seriously?
The UR will prove to be as reliable as the Heffner cars. UR has a long reliabilty track record in the Viper world already.
Its beyond ridiculous that one could look at a Heffner car, take into account the time spent on fit & finish, and draw the conclusion that it will be more reliable than the install put forth by UR
this has been a very interesting read and a disappointing one as well... i had always had respect for the Heffner kits ever since i remember him releasing his TT G kit but it is clearly evident that the UR kit is of better quality and components besides the fact that is significantly faster.... Ripper i wish you the best of luck on your UR TT buildup and cant wait to see the results....
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My post has been deleted, very classy. How can anyone expect this charade to be anything but false when UR and Ripper are pulling the forum's strings?
In case it was a forum blunder (hey, these things happen,) here's my post again. A legit question to the OP, but he obviously won't think so. Have I by any chance struck a cord here Ripper?
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I'm curious, why don't you sue Heffner? I mean, you got a "shoddy" kit, it's not as powerful as advertised, it's miles below your expectations, etc.
Why are you not suing him for the 60 grand of crappy work? Hell, I'd be all over his ***, but you're just gonna write off 60,000 dollars without blinking. Seems very strange to me.
Either you didn't earn the money (inheritance, rich daddy, etc.) or, you're just experiencing some buyers remorse.
Everything was great UNTIL someone else came along and posted a few pictures of their shinny new kit that cost less and had a better warranty.
Interesting quote above, but what you meant to say was, "I'm hoping other's can benefit from my inexperience and ignorance."
A few months from now, some other tuner is gonna benefit from evolution, put out a stronger kit, a cheaper one, with a much better warranty than that of Heffner and UR, will you be knocking on their door as well?
I get a feeling from you Ripper of a person who's never really satisfied with anything. That's why you're blowing another 50K on a kit that's gonna net you just a few more HP which you won't be able to detect anyway.
So, cheers, and enjoy your new photography friendly plumbing.
In case it was a forum blunder (hey, these things happen,) here's my post again. A legit question to the OP, but he obviously won't think so. Have I by any chance struck a cord here Ripper?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm curious, why don't you sue Heffner? I mean, you got a "shoddy" kit, it's not as powerful as advertised, it's miles below your expectations, etc.
Why are you not suing him for the 60 grand of crappy work? Hell, I'd be all over his ***, but you're just gonna write off 60,000 dollars without blinking. Seems very strange to me.
Either you didn't earn the money (inheritance, rich daddy, etc.) or, you're just experiencing some buyers remorse.
Everything was great UNTIL someone else came along and posted a few pictures of their shinny new kit that cost less and had a better warranty.
I'm hoping other's can benefit from my willingness to be forthright.
A few months from now, some other tuner is gonna benefit from evolution, put out a stronger kit, a cheaper one, with a much better warranty than that of Heffner and UR, will you be knocking on their door as well?
I get a feeling from you Ripper of a person who's never really satisfied with anything. That's why you're blowing another 50K on a kit that's gonna net you just a few more HP which you won't be able to detect anyway.
So, cheers, and enjoy your new photography friendly plumbing.
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What charade? Jason Heffner's TT builds have proven to be nothing more than over priced junk. Case closed.