Maybe they should have either:

1) Planned better and made an equally capable car that was cheaper OR

2) Made an equally expensive car that was far better.

Corrections, the 500 who are getting this car because it's an investment don't care but make no mistake, the car doesn't compete at that price.

No but you might at least be able to bring it into a comparison.

Welcome to the tough new challenges of breaking into a new market but nevermind you can bypass all that, build 500 units and price it twice as high. How does Ferrari's building experience detract in anyway from the end product? If anything it provides a level of assurance. Your key argument seems to be, "it's worth it because there's 500." By that token I could limit production of any car to 500 and double the price. And front-engine vs rear-engine isn't exactly a strong argument either.

If they were a limited run of 500, yes. Just look at the 911 Sport Classic.

So what you're saying, in essence, is that the market has gone mad and is entirely without reason.

 

I forgot to add that I've read or seen somewhere that Lexus' single clutch is pretty smooth for a single clutch.

 

Honestly BD, I don't know of ANYONE who buys these supercars on the sole basis of performance. You're not going too many people with an Enzo or CGT on a track. You're whole argument revolves around the performance of the car when in fact it's not entirely about that. Here's another mindbender for you. How does a "front-engined" car have a 48/52 FR weight ratio?

 

Again, you're not understanding the whole point of this car. You don't think Toyota can make a 750-1000 hp car if they really wanted to?
Far better in what way? From what I'm reading, neither the GT-R nor the ZR1 offer the same kind of driving thrills as this car. They don't offer the build quality nor the exclusivity either.

If they don't care either way, then they're not unwitting dupes like you're saying. Don't tell me you feel sorry for a guy who can drop 375 large on a car.
If the car doesn't compete at that price, then why are we comparing them? It doesn't compete in price, on layout, on philosophy, or exclusivity.

No, not really. A person in the market for an Enzo-type of car isn't going to make a purchasing decision on either the Enzo or the ACR. Even with A/C and soft suspension, the ACR is far too crudely built and common for most people to put down a deposit and get on a 2-year waiting list. It could lap the 'Ring in 7:10 and that wouldn't change a thing.

Who said it does?? Again, you are reading an implication that was never made.

If you could limit the production of that car to 500 and sell them, then it's worth the price. Welcome to supply & demand. This is also dependent on ability, technology, and build quality; it's not just limited numbers, but a combination of all of these factors. Notice a Black Series isn't the same exact thing as a non Black Series. XLR-V didn't have it, even at $100k. Maybe this Lexus does. You don't know until it plays out in the market.
Front engine vs rear engine is a strong argument because have you heard of a luxury front-engined GT that can deliver Scuderia-levels of involvement? A GT-R doesn't. A ZR1 doesn't, even after benefitting from the detail refinements that '08 Vettes received. There's a mechanical reason as to why front-engined cars generally aren't as involving, while it's not hard for cheaper mid-engined cars (like Lotus) to approach that level. A Panamera drives better than most cars, yet doesn't match rear-engined Porsches for steering feel and involvement, even though it's built by the same company.

SEE?? IF they were a limited run of 500. You are now realizing that quantity supplied can affect the demand (price). You are making my case for me. Notice I said:
"...if they were priced like the LFA and advertised at their usual numbers, would anyone buy them."
And no, the 911 Sport Classic is not advertised at $375k. Totally irrelevant to this discussion.

This has been true for a long time. It's not a new thing. Corvettes have been outrunning Porsches for decades. Yet Porsche still exists. Ferraris that were onced advertised in the back of R&T classifieds for $20k found buyers willing to fork over millions by the late '80s. The Toyota 2000GT, which originally sold for $7k (more than a Jaguar E-Type or Porsche 911 of the time), sold at auction for $225k three years ago. There are people buying $20k watches with as much contemplation as those of us buying a toothbrush. They see it, they like it, they buy it. End of.

 

How does a GTR, which drives the front wheels as well as the rears (and therefore has a diff up front) have a 50:50 weight dist.? It's called a transaxle. This is what I hear all along when people present their case. It's supposedly mind-bending technology that isn't mind-bending and certainly isn't new or unique. I'm not just looking at performance, I'm looking at all the technology involved. People should really read a bit more about the F458 and the technology in that.

It's a bit early to be talking about build quality but I agree that the GTR and ZR1 don't offer the same driving thrills, hence the comparison to the F458 and MP4-12C.
I'm asking what it's got that makes it unique and special enough to be worth twice the price (aside from limited production, which isn't really an offering to the world of automotive enthusiasts).

It's priced well above a GT3.2 or GT3.2 RS and I know which I'd rather drive.

So what you're saying, in essence, is that the market has gone mad and is entirely without reason.
I rest my case.

 

This is very well put and I agree with all of this, however, Ferrari has other cars to increase these "sales" with....So lexus is loosing money on this LFA...okay. Do you think individuals are going to have the same mindset as if it were a ferrari?

So with ferrari you can say "okay I dont have enough for an enzo, but look at all these other similar supercars!"...Yes Ferrari did a good thing with the Enzo and what it did to Ferrari ever since then has been nothing short of spectacular....but with the lexus LFA, you just cant say that. It's hard for me to see how lexus will increase sales from this supercar considering there are no other lexus' that relate even close to this thing...Whats the next best thing? the Is250? I mean come on. I do think Lexus is making a powerful statement however with this car and are showing their ability to show amazing craftsmanship and superb engineering into an automobile such as the LFA.

completely agree, well said.

 

GT-R weight distribution is 55/45, as weighed by C&D and Sport Auto.

Just about every review has been raving about the build quality, and an interior design that at least looks like it's trying. The same cannot be said about GT-R and ZR1. At least you now accept the driving thrills are not the same; if it were so easy to do, Nissan and GM would have duplicated the involvement of the Scuderia.
458 and MP4-12C should be cheaper for the reasons already cited.

To the world of automotive enthusiasts which includes people with huge bank accounts and a preference for factory custom, limited, bespoke, exclusive automobiles, the limited production counts big time. That will decide whether it is worth it or not; the marketplace is the decider. The McLaren simply won't have that exclusivity.
What has it got? A normally aspirated V10 that revs to 9000 rpm, that sounds like an F1 car, that isn't shared with or based on other engines. A carbon monocoque built in-house, with CF components weaved in-house, not built from CF sheets sourced from external suppliers. Name me another car that has all of this (the build and the exclusivity).

GT3.2's are bespoke chassis/body vehicles? No they aren't. They are steel-bodied factory-modified cars based on existing automobiles of which over 20k are built per year. What do you think the start-up cost is for building a GT3.2 or RS? Haha, nevermind.

No, I'm saying the market has been mad for a long time. Welcome to 1989. This is nothing new. People still buy Murcielagos when performance-wise (your end-result criteria for what a car should be worth), the ZR1 does the same for a fraction of the price. It's the same thing when the ZR1 was faster than the 911 Turbo almost 20 years ago. People still buy Porsche Turbos. The ZR1 (or GT-R, for that matter) doesn't make it redundant or a waste of money. Perhaps for those people who can barely afford a GT-R or Corvette and not much else.


The fact that so many are already talking about this car (good or bad) is raising Lexus in the public mind like never before. Secondly, the technologies here may filter down to lower models. The emphasis in coming years due to fuel prices and government mandates will be on smaller, more fuel-efficient and safer cars. If Lexus can make their CF and aluminum process more efficient, they will be ahead of the game. John Simister, writing for The Independent, wrote:
"So why make it, apart from the obvious reasons of kudos and halo-effect? Because lessons learnt from the carbon fibre production process will filter through to Toyota's family cars of the future, cars which may well have carbon-fibre structures if they can be made cheaply enough. Carbon fibre is very light, and cars must become lighter to meet future fuel-efficiency targets."
Ask yourself it that sounds completely screwball and unreasonable.

 

Never disagreed with you in the first place, but very well put! The way you put it definitely made me think about it like I didn't before! Personally I love the LFA, I have nothing negative to say about the car. If supply/demand allows the car to sell for 375k, then so be it. Then thats what the car is worth. Personally I don't think they'll have any issues selling all 500 units.