996 clutch slipping

Thread Tools
 
Rate Thread
 
Old Nov 27, 2007 | 08:53 AM
  #31  
atomic80's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,057
From: inside someone warm
Rep Power: 382
atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !
Wow....you never learned how to rev match? What about Todd?

Let me take a stab at explaining how to rev match. rev matching is a driving technique for shifting a manual transmission smoothly. One simply memorizes approximately how many RPMs different the various gears are from one another at the same speed, and then matches the engine's revs with the gear they are shifting in to. When upshifting, you just let the revs drop and slip into gear. When downshifting, you tap the throttle (or stomp on it depending on how long it takes to rev up.) This is often referred to as 'blipping' it. This works easily primarily because of the syncromesh gears in your transmission; if your transmission does not have them, this is very, very difficult to do without grinding. Even so, it takes the right touch.

For example, in one car the gears might all be approximately 1,000 RPM apart at the same speed. When downshifting from third to second, for example, you would apply accelerator pressure to raise the engine RPMs by 1,000 (say, from 3,000 to 4,000) and make your shift. You can then use engine braking to reduce your speed.

This practice results in reduced brake wear, less of a lurch when shifting from a higher gear to a lower one, less clutch slippage when shifting from a lower gear to a higher one, and a smoother shift without having to slip the clutch so much.

In auto racing, one often uses the more advanced form of this activity, heel-toeing (Alternately heel-toe braking or heel-toe downshifting) in which one's heel is on the brake pedal, decelerating, while the toe is on the gas pedal, accelerating. This allows the use of both the brakes and the engine to perform braking.

Both you and Todd should definitely look into taking a driving class perhaps with the PCA or any other car clubs that offer such a course. Look for courses that especially teaches how to heel-toe.
 
Old Nov 27, 2007 | 08:57 AM
  #32  
BoxsterGirlie01's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,724
From: Eastside, WA (6speed is my vacation home)
Rep Power: 407
BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !
hi jason,

i've taken the pca DE class with the heel/toe, but they didn't teach us about rev matching.

yep, we'll both be signing up for more. we've only had both cars since late may. and with his work schedule.....tough to get him in a class on a saturday. they are always scheduled to work on sat. but, with the new season coming, he'll have a chance to get to one. especially for how we will drive now and for the future. we'd like to prolong the life of our cars and not hurt them more than we have to due to our lack of knowledge about this stuff. lol!

thanks for the info! i feel bad...i'm making you all type novels! lol!
 
Old Nov 27, 2007 | 08:12 PM
  #33  
Bleu Omdurman's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,066
From: Seattle
Rep Power: 82
Bleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond reputeBleu Omdurman has a reputation beyond repute
Rev matching is what Heel/Toe accomplishes.

IMHO, it doesn't help prolong transmission life that much in today's cars. It's good to know, and good to use it but honestly, it is mostly pointless on the street. On the track, it is vital. You can of course use the track and not have the Heel/toe down, but it is one thing you will feel great about when you master it.

In a rear drive car, it is very important. If you are a maximum breaking, let's call it 99.9% braking, and you just begin to turn in as you dial off some steering, you are currently using 99.9% of your traction. At the limit, not over it. Then you do (for some reason) manage to change gears without disrupting the car. As you go to let the clutch out, if you have not matched revs perfectly, you will cause (in a RWD car) the rear tires to turn the engine. They do that (in the case of down shifting) by revving the engine up which at this point is connected by the drivetrain to the pavement. You add, lets say a small 1% (though in reality it could be as much as 50%) traction requirement. Well, that's now more than 100% traction, and you get to enjoy a 360 degree view of your shift point. Hopefully, there is not a wall near by, or maybe PASM gives you a little help.

To practice this technique, it is best done on the street. When approaching a red light or stop sign, apply the brakes, in the normal fashion. Then as your revs drop within the range of the next lower gear, Clutch in, nuetral, blip, shift, clutch out. Then as the revs reach your downshift point, repeat the process.

It is best to get in the habit of touching every gear and letting the clutch out during all of your down shifts. Otherwise, you may perform that once in a lifetime, "MONEY Shift".

Known so well of course, for its ability to show you just how expensive an engine replacment can be.

 
Old Nov 29, 2007 | 02:54 PM
  #34  
SlowMotion's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 582
From: Redmond, WA.
Rep Power: 0
SlowMotion is infamous around these parts
Cantrell Motorsports in Kirkland if you haven't fixed this already. They are golden, do great work, are honest, nice to deal with, quick, local and have good prices.
 
Old Nov 29, 2007 | 02:57 PM
  #35  
atomic80's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,057
From: inside someone warm
Rep Power: 382
atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !atomic80 Is a GOD !
My Turbo is at Cantrell as I type this getting coilovers, sways and droplinks installed. I know that Jody's dropping off the 996 tomorrow for a new flywheel/clutch.
 
Old Nov 29, 2007 | 03:01 PM
  #36  
BoxsterGirlie01's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,724
From: Eastside, WA (6speed is my vacation home)
Rep Power: 407
BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !
yep! jason is right! cantrell has come highly recommended and they are located close to home, so it's also convenient.

appt is tomorrow! they don't have the FW that PJ suggested. they said the gt3 won't fit the 996. i told colin my concerns about the LWFW and that the 996 is the hubbys DD. he said he's done a ton of them on 996's and the people that have had it done, love it! he's doing the sport spring clutch install as well. i'm sure todd will be really happy!

i'll let you all know how it turns out!

thanks again for everyones help, info, and advice! i appreicate ALL of you!
 
Old Nov 29, 2007 | 03:01 PM
  #37  
SlowMotion's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 582
From: Redmond, WA.
Rep Power: 0
SlowMotion is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by atomic80
My Turbo is at Cantrell as I type this getting coilovers, sways and droplinks installed. I know that Jody's dropping off the 996 tomorrow for a new flywheel/clutch.
Sweet! Your in good hands... I've spent some really serious cash with Colin now... he does good work and doesn't screw people which is nice to find in the expensive car world.
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 05:08 PM
  #38  
snpdesigns's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 120
From: seattle
Rep Power: 23
snpdesigns is infamous around these parts
Hey Jody,
Colin is GOOD guy!
Let me know what it cost.I might have to change mine to.

Thanks.
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 05:37 PM
  #39  
BoxsterGirlie01's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,724
From: Eastside, WA (6speed is my vacation home)
Rep Power: 407
BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by snpdesigns
Hey Jody,
Colin is GOOD guy!
Let me know what it cost.I might have to change mine to.

Thanks.

okay! car is back! colin charged $2000 to do a clutch change and to replace the OEM FW.

we opted for the LWFW....so with the new sport spring clutch, LWFW, and he also did a transmission fluid change for us. Grand total: $3000.

I priced the LWFW at a couple of popular parts places and the price was $998 to $1012. Colin didn't charge us any extra. He gave it to us for cost!

Anyway....Todd will get to drive it a bit this weekend if the weather holds up! Jason took some fabulous pictures! Here they are!

Thanks for the pics Jason!




 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 06:08 PM
  #40  
snpdesigns's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 120
From: seattle
Rep Power: 23
snpdesigns is infamous around these parts
Thanks!
Let me know which one you guys like better.
What nationality is your husband?

jin
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 06:11 PM
  #41  
BoxsterGirlie01's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,724
From: Eastside, WA (6speed is my vacation home)
Rep Power: 407
BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by snpdesigns
Thanks!
Let me know which one you guys like better.
What nationality is your husband?

jin

hi jin,
he's 3rd generation japanese. born/raised mercer island. he's a local guy. =)

i'm guessing, based on "jin"....are you korean?

jody
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 07:06 PM
  #42  
snpdesigns's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 120
From: seattle
Rep Power: 23
snpdesigns is infamous around these parts
Yes, I'm Korean.
Came in 1977. I'm consider 1 1/2 generation(I think)
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 08:33 PM
  #43  
mitchelrl's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,309
From: Seattle, WA
Rep Power: 72
mitchelrl is infamous around these parts
Well...my family plot is in Poulsbo if that tells you anything about my nationality =P

Rev Matching from the get go has done wonders on the longevity of my clutch. It's much easier on older cars as they give more feedback etc. Newer cars come with 50-100k warranty's...eff it!
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 09:20 PM
  #44  
BoxsterGirlie01's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,724
From: Eastside, WA (6speed is my vacation home)
Rep Power: 407
BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !BoxsterGirlie01 Is a GOD !
yup, i'm definately going to have to master the rev match and heel toe driving. i haven't practiced much at all. now with todd having the lwfw....he'll really want to get it down! anyone want to let me practice on their car? hehe! j/k...j/k!

thanks for all the info, guys!
 
Old Nov 30, 2007 | 09:42 PM
  #45  
PJS's Avatar
PJS
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,105
From: Seattle, WA USA
Rep Power: 246
PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !PJS Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by BoxsterGirlie01
okay! car is back! colin charged $2000 to do a clutch change and to replace the OEM FW.

we opted for the LWFW....so with the new sport spring clutch, LWFW, and he also did a transmission fluid change for us. Grand total: $3000.

I priced the LWFW at a couple of popular parts places and the price was $998 to $1012. Colin didn't charge us any extra. He gave it to us for cost!

Anyway....Todd will get to drive it a bit this weekend if the weather holds up! Jason took some fabulous pictures! Here they are!

Thanks for the pics Jason!




no time wasted on changing that signature
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:15 PM.