Well time for a little mid-week rant and rave..as I see it.

The L car WAS never designed to be a "track" car. It was designed from day one to be, by the Father of Lamborghini, a "step above" the Ferrari. It was made to be for the people of means that wanted a GREAT road going GT touring car with all the comfort and performance a car should have for the wide open roads of the European countryside. It was made to perfrom better for the Gentleman driver, that he could take one of his many Girldfriends from Rome to the South of France in comfort, safety and reliable performance while still being able to carry your weekend luggage in the same car. The L owners that wanted to "Race" their cars had the means and the ability to purchase true "race" cars, such as the Wolf Countach cars,the SV-R, GT-R, RG-T and of late the Super Tufero cars..these cars were "Designed" for the track and performed as they should, on a track and not on a open "public roadway".

The F car, from the begining had no heart for the "road driver" it was only built to help Enzo finance his passion for the "Track"..with little concern for comfort and long drives cross country in reliable fashion or style..it was put together to feed on the "masses" that wished to be Mario Speed racer every 4th Sunday of their life..and the money rolled in, allowing him to further his "Race" records..from cars that were "designed" for the track.

These two basic "Different" thoughts of building a car for the public still live today. And as in all things in life gives us choices and options.

You can purchase a top notch road gong car for style, comfort, reliabilty. Throw your bags in the trunk and drive from Seattle to Daytona Speedway in Florida, park your car, get out with no back pain or kidneys jolted to pebbles..climb in your "TRUE" race car and have a blast on the track all day..

OR you can get in your semi-built "race inspired" F car, drive from Seattle to Daytona Speedway and arrive late due to the multiple stops you need to make to give your back, knees, ears and kidneys a break from the constant dis-comfort ride. Then take your F car on the track, pretend to be a F-1 driver for the day..at the end..have it flatbeded back to the F shop/Service center for it's mandatory mileage service..which you pay dearly for and will be OK with..after all, you can tell everyone you lapped a Lamborghini on the track...of course this conversation will be carried at the height of 35,000 feet in the air, as you "Fly" back from Florida to Seattle, as there would be NO WAY you would ever put your body through the pounding it took on the way down...not to mention your girlfriend exited the car halfway down on the trip with her one pair of shoes and panties(all that could fit in the F car) and told you that you are "NUTS" if you think she is going all the way in the cramped rattle bucket causing her "implants" to bounce up and down, break and leak out.

OK..let the flaming begin LOL LOL

 

I guess I agree, but geeez what the Hell set you off?

 

Same reason I chose a "P-car"! I'm with ya!

 

I've never driven a Lambo, but I do love Ferraris. I'm all for bumpy rides and feeling everything before making and during a turn. My wife is weird. She liked going on long trips in the lotus which means she will love a ferrari as long as I can get one before we are tooo old.

 

See, now this is why I love the internet..

I just think it is great to hear all the different thoughts and comments..AND GLAD we can keep it civil..

Reminds me of the High School Football Games

"We got spirit, yes we do we got spirit how about you"

Bottom line..all cars are great and all cars have different appeal to differnt people..

I just felt like steering the some what BORING boards here of late..looks like it is working!!

 

There are several reasons people don't daily drive exotics. The lack of comfort being one.
Over the last couple months, I have tried sitting in every exotic I could find. I'm looking at a big change of income and considering an exotic. I didn't drive any. I just sat in these cars for long periods of time to gauge comfort, ergonomics and aesthetics. At the end I have determined that no car is worth 300K. I understand the hand assembly. I understand the exclusivity. I understand the market. I just don't understand shelling out 300K, even if you are mega-rich, for a car you can't oe don't want to drive everyday. If you did drive it often, the value drops tremendously and it will need servicing of astronomical costs.
I did find some cars I would definitely buy.
Jaguar XKR - Near exotic looks, luxurious interior, reputed to be a fantastic driver. Plus, it has a 4 year warranty. All for approximately 100K.
Nissan GTR - Exclusive looks. Lots of power. Three year warranty for 100K.
Audi R8 V10 - Exotic looks. Lot's of power. Again a warranty for around 120K
Corvette LSR or Z06. Yes, crappy interior but best bang for the buck power on the planet. Very cool looking, too.
Viper - Brute force car...best way to describe it.

Let me be honest. something magical happens when sitting in a Ferrari. I just don't think it's worth 300K. Couldn't fit in the Lambo's so I can't compare. Next step is to drive all these cars. I won't do that until I have the money in hand. Yes, things could change but I doubt it. I try to be frugal even when I'm throwing money away.

 

911 twin turbo buy one year old for 130 ..that has a CPO
and you can watch all those exotics in your rear view as you pass them buy.

 

Until you come to grips with EVERY CAR will loose money when you drive it..they are just for enjoyment..not an investment..you will never be happy no matter what the cost of anew car is..

As far as "astronimcal" service costs..that is total "MYTH" take it from someone that puts LOTS of miles on his cars.....just not true, the cost is higher on the gargae queens then the daily used and driven cars.

 

That's what I drive Porsches, best of both worlds. I have done a few long drives, & never felt beat up, or had my head buzzing form the noise. My C4 is better in the snow, then my Audi was.

Well, & I can't afford to maintain a F-car, or purchase a L-car. I have a friend how did a major service on his F-355 & it was over $30k. My dream F-car is a 512bbi, they just cost to much for such a old car.

I agree with Roy, when you drive them regularly, they seem to last longer, & drive better. But they also loose value as you enjoy them.

Roy, I know you have no issues driving a Lambo in the snow, but are you not scared about all the DUMB A$$ other drivers out there? That's what scares me, is every one else on the road.

 

I dont at all..after all thats what insurance is for..if I applied that theory of worry to all aspects of life..

Well, would you not walk up and say Hi to a pretty girl at a bar..JUST because there is "another guy" standing next to her..

Youw ill never hear the word "NO" unless you ask the question...

 

There're always some dumba$$es on the road....and sometimes it's me or you.......thats unavoidable

 

Yea, I know, but insurance can be a PITA. I would still prefer not to have my car hit. For some reason snow brings out a lot of dumb in the PNW.

LOL, I'm married, I hear "NO" all the time....

Yea, our state is full of them, but when the weather turns bad, they multiply & get dumber.

I've lived all over the country, & grew up in New England. In all my time snow driving, this is the only state where people just leave their car in the middle of the road & walk away. A few years ago, we were flying in form Boston, when we had a good snow storm. Cars were abandoned everywhere, shoulder, middle lane, any/every lane, some were even sideways. It took use over 5 hours to get from SeaTac to Tacoma.

 

Is it just me, but is the excuse "our cars fare poorly on the track because they're designed for the street" just the lamest cop-out EVER?

Ferrari makes the best street cars in the world right now. That does not mean the best value though, LOL. The 458 (and its 430 predecessor) are SUPREMELY comfortable, and deliver devastating performance both on the track and off. It's a car you could EASILY live with every day. Ferrari have a rich history of building "boulevardiers" such as the Daytona, 456, 365, 250, 250GT, 330, 330GT, 275. Ferrari have also created some literally legendary track-monsters such as the 250GTO, 288GTO, F40, F50, Enzo and 599GTO. None of these latter cars would make the owner happy to drive everyday, but Lamborghini have NEVER produced anything in their entire history that competes with this particular niche of the market that Ferrari has dominated. Lamborghini have only ever produced "boulevardiers", and with the possible exception of the Miura, they have not aged well.

So, to compare apples-to-apples you shouldn't compare an Enzo or Scuderia to a Lamborghini, but rather a comfortable sports-car such as the 458 or 430. I would be happy, nay delighted to drive a 458 from Seattle to Daytona in a 458 and then hit the track afterwards. Even the Scuderia is actually very comfortable considering its capabilities on the track. I've also driven 8 hours straight (and could easily do more) in a 430 and felt as fresh as a daisy afterwards.

I don't think people choose between F and L because of street/track performance principally. Certainly, bragging rights for say 0-60 times or bhp, etc might be minor influencers. L has the perceived advantage of being able to rack up miles without undue depreciation. But this comes at the cost of an *expected* steep depreciation curve. F cars maintain their value better, or at least that is the perception, so owners can sometimes be reticent to rack up too many miles. But again, there is nothing to stop the new 458 owner from putting on 12,000 miles/yr on it. So, really this isn't (or shouldn't) be a deciding factor. I think what it all comes down to is appeal of the car and the marque itself. For me, the rich racing history of Ferrari is something I value, that I am "investing" in a company that spends a lot of the money I give them on Formula 1, a sport I love. For me, rightly (or more often wrongly) the Lamborghini brand evokes images of overweight old men trying "too hard", with the toupee and hamster stapled to the chest and enough gold for a small village. I have a lot of good friends, such as yourself, and Tom and others that love Lamborghinis that ignore the brand image and just enjoy the snot out of their cars, and I absolutely applaud you all for that. I also appreciate Lamborghini being in the market because their presence makes Ferrari's cars better and more affordable due to market forces of competition. I think the main thing though is the style of the cars. The garish design of Lamborghinis puts me off them, and I just find the design inside/out of Ferraris to be much more appealing. A Ferrari to me is like Charlize Theron -- classy, attractive and hints at extreme performance. A Lamborghini to me is like Snooki -- just a little too desperate for my tastes. But heck, it's the differences that make the world go 'round, so "vive la differance!".

I've had ONE small mechanical issue with one car in my 8 years of Ferrari ownership. They have proven themselves to be extremely reliable and dependable for me. The stereotype of being fickle and unreliable is completely undeserved for modern Ferraris, as I am sure is true for Lamborghinis too.

Just my $0.02....

 

current Gt3rs street car finished in the top 20 at 24 hrs of nurburgring - was driven to and from the race - only track mods were safety related and track tires

I like that

I also like the "roots in racing, not posing"

 

Brit..thank you for your views...I sure hope my GOLD and hamster chain does not get in the way of your viewing pleasure at E@RTC LOL..

I agree with you in some points you make..

Yes Ferrari has race history..and it is great for advertisement and gettin the brand "Known"..but in today's world of regulations, emissions etc etc..the race theory of the F-1 car from the track to the street is NOT what it used to be...and as the years creep up on us over wieght partly bald guys..it will become less and less of a "built" in item to the street car.

I dis-agree with you on the comfort issue..yes I am sure the car (f) drives fine for long distance and you sprot out all fresh..BUT to make a fair comparission, you would have to drive a comparable L car the same route in the same 8 hour period..I think then you would give the long haul comfort win to the L car..I sure have..and yes I have driven many a F car long distance and for hours...

I agree with you your cars have less issues then most Ferrari's then the norm..why..simple you are ONE of the few that PUT MILES on your car and exercise it..one thing for sure, F car, L car P car..whatever car..it has to become very very clear to anyone following cars over the last ten years that a "drive-exercised" car, well maintained will OUTPERFROM ANY garage queen any day of the week..it is basic science..they are machines.

I do think there is not a question that as a whole L car owners drive their cars to higher miles and more frequent then F car owners..(with the exception of the PNW, I think F car owners here drive way more then F car owners across the country as a whole).

As far as all the Magizine tests..not any of them have the same outcome on any given day for any given car..all changes on driver, location, temprature etc etc..and to be quite frank..it has gotten so into 1/100 of seconds that a normal human being on a given day on our public roads COULD never tell the disfference.

I will concded for the most part the available to the Public F car is a better track car, (less the exception of maybe the Super G cars and the like), but then again that is what F car hangs their hat on, and it what sells their cars. The Sunday tracker feels all inspired, far a day or a hour on the track or on the way to the grocery store.

The L car driver, IMO, is not intrested to be a semi-pro F-1 driver..at least I am not. I am intrested in being able to drive my car daily, comfort in knowing it is MUCH safer to operate on our day to day public roads with it's AWD...that I have no worries to run into heavy rain, sleet, ice or snow and be able to out perfrom must AWD SUV cars...while be able to have legal public street acceleration performace once the sun comes out as well.

The looks and style, yes very very subjective to the on-looker. For instance I do not at all get attracted to a 458 (hence using this car as an example), it to me appears to have been three cars put together, front middle and rear..and none of it flows..its rear taillights stick out like hog worts on a witches nose..the front looks as if it wants to cut the wheat fields of Kansas..and hangs a little $1.63 machined some what chrome marque in front like a bad lure on a even worst fishing trip...with its Bass like jaw wide open.

Interior, again subjective, but I guess if more is better..then it wins..I mean after all it most be impressive as hell to step into a ****pit that has so many buttons and ***** and colored LED idiot lights...that it makes you fell as you are enjoying the 118th showing of star wars in front of your eyes..with all the gadgets you have to operate to get the car to perform in different situations...it is more un-safe on the road then "Texting".

Value and re-sale..this is totaly back to the old saying of "Any item is only worth what one person is willing to pay for it...and the seller is willing to let it go for". Just because an item is percieved to be of more value and is held as a "monopoly" by a "Licensed Dealer" with old fashion over sticker pricing,..does not make the item a better item then a like competors in the field. It does make for GREAT HYPE and wonderful market capture and the "built in" give you a fuzzy warm feeling that you are something "special".

The fact that production alone for the F car over the L car is quite common sense that their is No greater exclusivity to the brand...to the oppisite..you are more likely to have the same car, color, options as your friends next door Red Ferrari.

Against all popular mis-givings out there..I do not dislike Ferrari's. I buy and sell them..they make me money. They are a wonderfiul car for a certain buyer that is entrenched in the history, the large following, the alure of being special on the list...and this will not change and I am OK with that. Would I buy a Ferrari for me or ever own one again and operate it..most likely not..and not because it can be an inferior car to not only the L car, put many many other brands of Exotics out there...

Which brings us back full circle to the "Gold Chain" L owners..110% correct, for the most part the L owner, compared to the F owner..are "non-compliant" out of the box performers that have a "I worked for it can do what I want with" anti establishment, 180 degree's away from the run of the mill follow the "yellow brick road" and "sing along with the bouncing
ball" crowd...

ANd that is what makes the Saturday car meets and all other events where the L and the F guys get together fun...at the very least we can laugh with and at each other and still enjoy each others thoughts...even if you are wrong LOL

See you all Saturday..BUT I WONT be driving an L car..you will have to wait and see what I bring...